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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Last edited by JMW on Thu May 15, 2014 12:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Tbh I don't actually recall the website saying that the scoring would be one third for each area and then changing it at the marking, so VR accounted for 50%? I think that in reality, this is what everyone assumed (certainly we did!) because that is what has happened so far, and then, when the results came out, everyone got a shock! Are you sure the website actually said that VR would count for 33.3333% for this year? I'm also not sure you can assume that comprehension accounts for about 25% of this years mark - neither ds really felt there was comprehension in the traditional sense in CEM, more cloze type things. Again, for CEM you need to be solid in all areas - and fast at the mental maths. I assume you signed the medical declaration saying your daughter was fit and well, on the morning of the test? I know they are not terribly sympathetic when people then claim their dc was unwell. I would focus on why your dd prefers SGGS to AGS as, if she qualifies for AGS, you are then not arguing that she is a gs candidate but that she wants a specific gs.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:56 pm 
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And would an objection based on the weightings of the different areas be asking them to acknowledge that this is a test you can 'coach' for. By which I mean the CEM is meant to be a tutor proof test (ha ha), and they are publicising it as such, it is meant to be a proper test of childrens abilities across the board, in theory no tutoring required..........


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:09 pm 
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I've looked again at the website, and I am pretty positive that they do not have it written anywhere about the marking scheme - I think, JMW, that maybe you, like many others, assumed it would be weighted equally across the three areas because that is what happened before? And, actually, the mark scheme before, unfairly favoured mathematicians as there is a clear link between being good at maths and being good at NVR, so this years mark scheme got rid of that bias. And, in terms of an appeal, everybody was affected equally by the changing mark scheme, in that I am not sure anyone was aware it was going to happen and, as Yamin151 says, I am sure a panel would argue that the test measures your child's ability across all areas so coaching an area that is weaker, wouldn't help...!! Think positive - assuming you put SGGS first on your CAF, then you will either be offered a place straight away, or will go on the waiting list for them and may be offered from that (9 girls were last year) before you would have to go to appeal.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:26 pm 
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I too thought that I had read about the split but I can't remember where I saw it written. I commented about it when the results were received.

Sorry to hear your DD was poorly - I'm sure one of the appeals people will be able to give some guidance.


Last edited by Brum Mum on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:38 pm 
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I am sure the mighty Okanagan could tell us if it was actually on the WCC website - this was taken from the information thread the mods posted about results coming out on the 18/19 Oct (on the Warks bit of the forum)


_ The results letters will give you your child's test score - both a total, and broken down by the score for each of the three components - Verbal, non-verbal and numercial - along with the maximum score possible. EDIT TO ADD - In previous years all 3 elements had equal weighting. This year it is 50% verbal and 25% each NVR and numerical. Final scores are made up of the standardised verbal score, plus the average of the two standardised scores for NVR and numerical. Therefore comparison with previous years is difficult - you best estimate will be to take 2/3 of the previous scores as a guideline.


I wonder whether a lot of us read the initial bit, before the edited note, and the information that we got from people who had taken the test before and assumed it would be the same this year, ie equal weighting? The edited note was added after results came out...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Absolutely kenyancowgirl (cool name BTW) - it could well have been here that I initially read it!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:42 pm 
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Welcome, JMW.

Very wise of you to try and sort out what to focus on.

Quote:
She also trapped her fingers of her right hand in the car on the Sunday before the exam. I took her to A&E and had x ray etc, and it did seems to get largely better over the week but she did complain of it really aching at the end of the school day, so she stayed off the school on the Friday. On the Saturday morning of the exam she was ok but again complained of it aching by the end of the exam (probably gripping the pencil too hard!!). Anyway not major grounds for appeal but could account for the odd mark or two.
I wouldn't mention this - unless the panel ask you very specifically "How was she feeling on the day?" If they do, then you have good reason to refer to it briefly, but play it down: "I really don't know what difference it made, perhaps the odd mark or two .... ?"

Quote:
My other issue was that Warwickshire stated on their website that the test would be marked with each section accounted for a third of the marks and this was how we prepared her. When the test results came through they announced they had changed the marking scheme so that VR now accounted for 50% of the marks. I knew comprehension was her weakest skill but thought that as it only accounted for about 1/6 of the marks she would be ok. In the end it accounted for about 25% ( guessing about half the VR paper). My parting shot to her in the exam was to not worry about the comprehension as it was only a small part of the marks!!. Could this changing of the marking scheme be possible grounds for appeal also.?
I don't think I'd pursue this!


For your written submission, I would attach some brief medical evidence to confirm what you've told me about privately. Then I would write:
      • ...... has had a considerable effect on her, and made her vulnerable.
      • It affected her progress at school (notably in English)
      • I am very keen for her to go to an all-girls school which I believe would provide the right environment for her.
      • She found the number of boys at Alcester, and the size of the 6th form, intimidating.
      • In contrast she really loved Shottery when we visited, and would benefit from the support of her best friend who is going there.
      • There are logistical reasons which I can explain at the hearing.
      • Thank you for taking the time to consider our appeal. I look forward to meeting you, and answering any questions you may have.

Keep your written case as concise as possible.

If the current school would be willing to write something confirming her 'vulnerability', that would help. (Have there been any bullying incidents you could remind them about? Do they accept that her academic progress has been affected?)

Hope this is of some assistance.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:55 am 
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Etienne - many thanks for your valuable feedback which I have used to refine my appeal document - would you mind reviewing it if I sent it to the confidential appeals box? I would rather keep it confidential due to the medical issues.
Also, I am still a bit confused though on some conflicting advice on this site. I have read through loads of the appeals reports on the site and quite a few believe that the decision was made before the appeals hearing and that the written submission is really important and that evidence for absolutely everything is key.
If I do as you advise, Etienne and keep the written submission really brief, and say, don't mention my daughter's hand getting trapped, then how can I prove it really happened without including the letter from her doctor as evidence. Or should I just take it with me as backup?
Also if I don't mention the logistical problems in detail in writing, I am worried that decisions will have been made before I step in the room. Or are you saying I should provide detailed evidence but keep the overview really simple?
When speaking to admissions, they also advised that I could leave the Grounds for Appeal section blank and just say " to be added later" so as to get the appeal in before the deadline but leave the main points for later on before the hearing. I am inclined to do this as I feel my DD case would be stronger for SGGS if she already had a place at AGS (which she is on the waiting list for, but may not get a place until after 31st march) rather than her currently allocated school. i.e. the logistical issues re AGS are significant but less so for her currently allocated school. Any views on this appreciated also.

Also one last small Q. One question that seemed to come up regularly asked by the appeals panel was " what books is your child reading". At the moment I wouldn't have a clue as dd rarely reads at home.. should I just be honest or should I find out what she has been reading at school?? I suppose I am trying to understand what the real purpose of this question is...
Many thanks for any advice


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:17 pm 
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JMW wrote:
Etienne - many thanks for your valuable feedback which I have used to refine my appeal document - would you mind reviewing it if I sent it to the confidential appeals box? I would rather keep it confidential due to the medical issues.
Sorry - we don't usually have time to check written submissions.
(Occasionally we need to see a draft submission in order to give someone advice, but in that situation we ask!)

Quote:
Also, I am still a bit confused though on some conflicting advice on this site. I have read through loads of the appeals reports on the site and quite a few believe that the decision was made before the appeals hearing and that the written submission is really important
The idea that decisions are made before the hearing belongs in the Myths & Legends section!

Quote:
and that evidence for absolutely everything is key.
That bit is correct.

Quote:
If I do as you advise, Etienne and keep the written submission really brief, and say, don't mention my daughter's hand getting trapped, then how can I prove it really happened without including the letter from her doctor as evidence. Or should I just take it with me as backup?
Take the letter with you to the hearing.

Quote:
Also if I don't mention the logistical problems in detail in writing, I am worried that decisions will have been made before I step in the room.
No they won't!
Quote:
Or are you saying I should provide detailed evidence but keep the overview really simple?
Yes - if it's an important point, I see no reason why you can't attach the evidence, and explain the logistical argument by means of a brief bullet point.

Quote:
When speaking to admissions, they also advised that I could leave the Grounds for Appeal section blank and just say " to be added later" so as to get the appeal in before the deadline but leave the main points for later on before the hearing. I am inclined to do this as I feel my DD case would be stronger for SGGS if she already had a place at AGS (which she is on the waiting list for, but may not get a place until after 31st march) rather than her currently allocated school. i.e. the logistical issues re AGS are significant but less so for her currently allocated school. Any views on this appreciated also.
If you need more time, you can indeed delay. This is covered in the Q&As:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a7

Quote:
Also one last small Q. One question that seemed to come up regularly asked by the appeals panel was " what books is your child reading". At the moment I wouldn't have a clue as dd rarely reads at home.. should I just be honest or should I find out what she has been reading at school?? I suppose I am trying to understand what the real purpose of this question is...
Difficult to say which of the following applies:
      (a) They want to check that the child is reading something more advanced than comics (but if you say "The complete works of Shakespeare", how are they to know she really has read them?) :?:

      (b) They can't think of anything else to ask! :roll:
      See 'filler' questions:
      http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... ication#b7

I doubt that your answer will influence their decision so long as you don't reply "Comics"! :lol:



The balance (in terms of length and detail) between the written submission and the presentation at the hearing
See C18(b):
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c18

Of the two possible approaches, I think a brief written submission is preferable, unless of course .......
      Quote:
      ..... it is known that appeals are to be scheduled at 15 minute intervals (unusual and unreasonable, but there are a few admission authorities where this happens).

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