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 Post subject: Disappointed in Bucks
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Posts: 127
Having lurked for the past 12 months - I feel moved to add to my comments to the forum -

DC - end of Y5 Sats Results
Reading – 5B
Writing – 4A
Maths – 5C

11+ Score - 110 (Sept born)

Predicted end of Ks2 results
Reading – 5A
Writing – 4B
Maths – 5A

Headmaster's Statement says DC is working towards Y6 Papers in Maths & English. Highly Recommended for GS.

Reading Age - 14yr and 6 months.

What do I get back from the review panel ? 1 sheet of paper with the box ticked that says

- child is expected to achieve 3 * level 5

and a second box ticked which indicates

- there is no evidence to show this child will thrive in Grammar School
- there are no extenuating circumstances.

Well I would have thought the evidence was self explanatory - DC would thrive as has solid Ks2 predictions.
Extenuating circumstances at this stage I thought were a "nice to have" but academic ability would be the key performance indicator.

Had I known that academic abilty counted for nothing & circumstances were key I would have invented a missing cat or a squashed hamster. My faith in the system to pick the correct children has been shaken.

I have spoken to friends who have also had their reviews turned down - at least their papers have annotations on them as evidence that the DC's performance was discussed. My paperwork has nothing on it apart from a signature.

I feel that there are a number of "passes" at 113 but someone somewhere drew the line at 110 ish and said "no".

I will seek to appeal - following all the advice on the Forum

but if any-one wants to lend a hand please feel free to chip in and help

Thanks for listening -


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:29 pm 
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Posts: 7059
Welcome! :)

BlueBerry22 wrote:
a second box ticked which indicates

- there is no evidence to show this child will thrive in Grammar School
- there are no extenuating circumstances.

Well I would have thought the evidence was self explanatory - DC would thrive as has solid Ks2 predictions.
"No evidence" seems absurd!
For appeal purposes, though, I would advise something extra (e.g. alternative evidence of high level reasoning ability). See "What academic evidence do I need?" by following the link at the bottom of this post.

Quote:
Extenuating circumstances at this stage I thought were a "nice to have" but academic ability would be the key performance indicator.
For reviews they say they normally have an 'expectation' of significant extenuating circumstances. I'm not convinced they always enforce this, but at 110 they might well do so.

For an appeal, see "What about extenuating circumstances?" by following the link at the bottom of this post.

Quote:
Had I known that academic abilty counted for nothing & circumstances were key I would have invented a missing cat or a squashed hamster.
I'm a bit doubtful about that! :lol:
Quite apart from the missing cat/squashed hamster, I suspect a panel would want evidence of how the child was affected.

Quote:
I have spoken to friends who have also had their reviews turned down - at least their papers have annotations on them as evidence that the DC's performance was discussed. My paperwork has nothing on it apart from a signature.
Agreed - this doesn't appear to be satisfactory. One ought to be able to see how a panel arrived at its decision.

Quote:
I feel that there are a number of "passes" at 113 but someone somewhere drew the line at 110 ish and said "no".
I've heard of some cases that succeeded below 110-ish.

Looking ahead to an appeal, I assume you've read our Q&As? If not, please go to "Start here":
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=35032

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:42 pm 
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I do know of one case where the child scored 99 but had strong and well evidenced extenuating circumstances and good sats (level 5s from yr 4 onwards).

Dd scored 113 with no extenuating circumstances and did not succeed. Speaking to the head today she said all of her pupils that got through had extenuating circumstances.

The form we received was also unsatisfactory as it just contained a tick against number of level 5s expected as 1 even though the head predicted 3 and then the NO circled - no comments no notes and no explanation as to why heads predictions had not been accepted. BTW the head is also a panel member!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:26 pm
Posts: 263
Hi

I am so sorry for you all out there dealing with this.

I have a DC in year 5. What I am struggling with is if a child who is highly intelligent and this is shown as very good SATs and CATs grades but they have a bad day on the exam day (understandable with all the stress on them at such a young age!) and say score 110 (which I think is more like 115 under the old test) they will probably not get through an appeal without extenuating circumstances even though clearly they are bright enough to cope at a GS.

Therefore all that really matters is that the poor kids can perform on the day and if not tough luck to us all. Who would create such an unfair system, it is ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:18 am 
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I don't think enough data has been crunched yet to make such a claim; but I know it is possible to be successful at appeal with scores in the 'low teens'. There was convincing evidence of high performance, support from school, but no extenuating circs except the child's report of getting muddled and going to bits in the exam.

Keep as calm as you can and try not to worry about what hasn't happened yet (easy to say, I know).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:16 pm
Posts: 127
Thanks for all replies - especially Etienne as the moderator.

I just find it frustrating that it is such a closed box - everything happens behind closed doors.

Also realised I did my DC an injustice by posting incorrect predicted Ks2 scores

They should have read - .

Predicted Performance
Reading – 5A
Writing – 5B
Maths – 5A

so very solid level 5's and potential Level 6 - although they are a big step up in terms of difficulty.


I have been wondering about DC's processing speed and sequencing skills so am going to get invest in an Ed Psych report - much like the one PurpleRabbit talks of on another thread. it may not gain a GS place this year but will satisfy my curiousity.

I do think the new 11+ is a better test but I also think that speed is key.

They now need to sort out a much more transparent system for reviews whereby it is not acceptable for two panels to arrive at 2 different conclusions.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:17 pm 
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I have been using this site's resources since Sep 2012, but this is my first interaction with the forum.
I think under the new system, the HT's role in advising the parent is very important. This us what iur head advised us to do:
With your DC's 11+ scores in the individual areas, are you able to predict which component has let him down and provide alternate evidence or extenuating circumstances to explain that?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:16 pm
Posts: 127
Hi there,

I saw that last year approx 168 Appeals were heard in Bucks of which c30% were successful.

Were these appeals that succeeded in passing F,C,O ?

Or is that the sum total of appeals and those that failed did so on either
- failing to persuade the Panel that Review was not FCO
- or on Academic ability ?

What I am trying to understand is how many cases failed at the FCO stage ?

Do we anticipate any major changes for 2014 - I know nothing is being published until National Offers Day but is there a gut instinct that something will need to change as each candidate has to explain their take on FCO and thus Panels are hearing same arguments over and over & are potentially bored before even reaching the Academic bit ?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:12 pm 
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BlueBerry22 wrote:
I saw that last year approx 168 Appeals were heard in Bucks of which c30% were successful.
Were these appeals that succeeded in passing F,C,O ?
Not sure where the 168 comes from. I can't see it in the table here:
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/education/sch ... l/appeals/
(scroll down to "statistics")

Quote:
Or is that the sum total of appeals and those that failed did so on either
- failing to persuade the Panel that Review was not FCO
- or on Academic ability ?
What I am trying to understand is how many cases failed at the FCO stage ?
We've not seen any separate figures published for 'fair, consistent & objective', but as far as we're aware the majority of post-review cases that went to appeal last year were found not to have been FCO.
(This at least seems to demonstrate the independence of appeal panels!)

Quote:
Do we anticipate any major changes for 2014 - I know nothing is being published until National Offers Day but is there a gut instinct that something will need to change as each candidate has to explain their take on FCO and thus Panels are hearing same arguments over and over & are potentially bored before even reaching the Academic bit ?
No idea, but it looks to us as if whatever they do will present some difficulties (administratively, and for panels, and for appellants). What a pity the whole process was never properly thought through before they embarked on reviews ......

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:42 am
Posts: 110
For info
We did two appeals last year, both using exactly the same information and reasons for not being FCO - in one we successfully showed it was not FCO and in the other we did not!

So yes they are independent but perhaps not so consistent across the appeals panels.


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