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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:55 am 
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This is my first post, so sorry if I ramble on a little.
Firstly congratulations to everyone who has been able to secure a place at their school of choice.

My son achieved a poor score of 101 in his 11+ (109 verbal,107 maths, 71 Non verbal), I know him, he is a clever boy but the result was not entirely unexpected. My son doesn't react well to pressure and was extremely nervous on the run up to the 11+, whenever we put him in a test situation he would panic, yet be perfectly capable of answering the same question during practice. Knowing it was a long shot we asked for a review. My son had a score of 2,2 from the school, a strong recommendation from the HT, 2 5Bs and a 4A for his KS2 SATs. We also asked the review panel to take into consideration his extreme anxiety which also caused him to misalign his answers for part of a section. At the end of October we received my son’s CAT results which averaged 121 and 5Bs for all subjects. Unfortunately these arrived too late to be submitted to the review panel.
We were given SAT scores at the end of year 5 and then received these at the beginning of year 6, can anyone tell me why I received 2 sets in such a short space of time?

Unsurprisingly we were unsuccessful in the review and were told it was for academic reasons with the misalignment of answers not being of significance (probably true but there was no reference to the affect on the overall result).
No reference was made to his nerves by the review panel but to me this is an extenuating circumstance (I know I am biased), its just that how do you prove it given the argument that being nervous is normal. However nerves don't usually result in a child who is in line to achieve 5Bs with a CAT score of 121 scoring 101 in his 11+.

We are unsure what to do now, my son’s CAT scores show him to be in the top 10 percent and therefore in my view suitably academic. Am I correct in this assertion?
Can anyone give me pointers on how to proceed at appeal or whether I should bother?
I’d appreciate any advice or help. Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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Welcome! :)

Quote:
how do you prove it given the argument that being nervous is normal.
Most children are going to be nervous - but we're talking here about 'extreme anxiety'.
Did the school notice anything out of the ordinary about your son at the time of the 11+?
Or can they confirm that he becomes visibly nervous in certain situations?

Quote:
We are unsure what to do now, my son’s CAT scores show him to be in the top 10 percent and therefore in my view suitably academic. Am I correct in this assertion?
Possibly!
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... ication#b4

Quote:
Can anyone give me pointers on how to proceed at appeal or whether I should bother?
I’d appreciate any advice or help.
It looks to me as if your son may well be suitably academic.
For appeal purposes, however, it's a question of how much evidence you can assemble, because no one bit of evidence is likely to be sufficient. See:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11

If in doubt, I would always appeal - to keep all your options open.

If you haven't already done so, it would be a good idea to read all the Q&As:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/

and the Bucks sticky:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36418

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:49 pm
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Thanks for your comments Etienne. I will ask the school but I suspect they will not be able to offer much in way of evidence, my son is very good at hiding his feelings and being nervous to some degree is perfectly normal in that situation.
There is the possibility which I have to face that the 11+ was too difficult for him and therefore a grammar school wouldn’t be appropriate.

I asked my son’s HT about the apparent discrepancy between his KS2 4A SAT score for writing and the level 5B for English obtained from his CAT scores. The response wasn’t positive, I was told the 4A result is based on a lot of data and is considered more accurate. On the other hand my son worked hard last summer so possibly his predicted outcome may have improved. My worry now is the appeal panel will focus on the 4A score for writing which will weaken our case.

Is the HT correct to almost discount the SAT results obtained from the CAT testing?

There is a lot of useful information on this website (thanks for that) and so far the admissions people at Bucks CC have been very helpful. The advice I’m getting from all directions is just to get the form in on time and gather your evidence later.
Again, I would really appreciate any comments, thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 2827
My understanding is that there is a deadline by which you have to lodge your appeal. You can then gather your evidence after that deadline, before the appeal - at any point, you can choose to withdraw from the appeal if you decide it is not worth it or the evidence is against it. For the sake of giving yourself a bit more time to gather your thoughts, I would say go for it. Ask the school if they are doing any mock SATs under test conditions currently - perhaps the HT would look at those and be positive in any supporting report?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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Quote:
My worry now is the appeal panel will focus on the 4A score for writing which will weaken our case.
Is the HT correct to almost discount the SAT results obtained from the CAT testing?
I think he is more likely to rely on the school's ongoing assessment, rather than on a one-off test (which may or may not be 100% reliable). However, it doesn't stop you pointing out to an appeal panel what the CAT score indicated for the future.

Besides, 4a is presumably what was being said months ago (September/October?). It would obviously be helpful if by the time of the appeal (May at the earliest?) your son is exceeding expectations at school!

Best not to pressure him about this, though, if he is prone to anxiety. (It's not unusual for boys to be less strong at Writing.)

I agree with KCG, both as regards keeping an eye on what progress is being made in Writing, and as regards submitting late evidence.

You don't even need to state your case at the moment - simply write "Details of case to follow".

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:27 pm 
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I'm confused by what you say about CATs - they aren't related to NC levels at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:34 pm 
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After the verbal, quantitative and NVR scores, detailed CATs results always used to include a section headed "Indicated KS2 levels with 80% confidence bands".

From bucksdad8623's post, it sounds as if they still do.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:39 pm 
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Yes I know but this is not what CATs are meant to be used for!

They are not reliable predictors of individual outcomes but are a tool for comparing cohorts according to the CATs training I attended.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Which is why it seemed to me that ongoing assessment within the school would count for more..... :)

But it's confusing for parents when they get a printout showing indicated NC levels, isn't it?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Yes - I'm surprised the school passed that on because most schools don't as they know the information isn't a reliable prediction.


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