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 Post subject: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:34 pm 
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hello, another newbie I am afraid. I have compiled and sent an appeal for DS who did not qualify for or local grammar by 2 points. We have a well rounded case (thanks to the excellent advice found here!) but possibly no stellar points. I have discovered that there are 35 appeals this year (18 last with 8 upheld) and am now beginning to feel less confident!!

We will be up against some oversubscription which I appreciate places us at a disadvantage. I wondered if you could advise which points are likely to be used to "rank" the apellants or if this is down to individual panels? I am trying to compile a brief summary for the hearing and wondered which points to highlight.

I am happy to send a summary of our points to the appeals box but appreciate you must be busy!!


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:46 pm 
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Welcome! :)

inyourowntime wrote:
hello, another newbie I am afraid. I have compiled and sent an appeal for DS who did not qualify for or local grammar by 2 points. We have a well rounded case (thanks to the excellent advice found here!) but possibly no stellar points. I have discovered that there are 35 appeals this year (18 last with 8 upheld) and am now beginning to feel less confident!!
I assume that's oversubscription only? 8 out of 18 sounds quite good. (Anything over a third is above the national average.)
A different panel, of course, could come to different conclusions.

Quote:
We will be up against some oversubscription which I appreciate places us at a disadvantage. I wondered if you could advise which points are likely to be used to "rank" the apellants or if this is down to individual panels? I am trying to compile a brief summary for the hearing and wondered which points to highlight.
It's down to the individual panel members.

Quote:
I am happy to send a summary of our points to the appeals box but appreciate you must be busy!!
I may have nothing to add - but send it, and I'll tell you.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Hi Etienne, thanks for your speedy reply!
The 8 out of 18 were all non-qualification as the school was not oversubscribed last year. This year seems to be a very different year - hence my move from cautious optimism to plain terror!
I will send something to the appeals box if my IT skills don't fail me.


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
inyourowntime wrote:
I wondered if you could advise which points are likely to be used to "rank" the apellants or if this is down to individual panels? I am trying to compile a brief summary for the hearing and wondered which points to highlight.

Etienne is (as always) spot on. Every panel I sit on is different, even if the members are the same as the previous year (we often move around). The main reason is that every year different points are made, sometimes new ones (although novelty does not equate with importance), different stengths of arguement, even different evidence from the school.

As there are three (or theoretically five) panel members, each with different jobs, experience and views, it's not unusual for each of them to interpret the evidence differently.

There is no simple way to rank apellants. If there was, you could automate the system, thus loosing the 'human' input.

Quote:
This year seems to be a very different year - hence my move from cautious optimism to plain terror!

One thing is certain, though. The best way not to win an appeal is not to appeal. You'll never know how strong or weak your appeal is compared with the other parents, so you're always in with a chance.

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Capers


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:19 pm 
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capers123 wrote:
There is no simple way to rank apellants. If there was, you could automate the system, thus loosing the 'human' input.
Capers puts it in a nutshell :D

Inyourowntime - I'll try and give a few thoughts. (I appreciate that what I've seen is a summary, and that some of my points might be covered elsewhere.)

The optional Y5 SAT of 4a fits with the Y6 target of 5b, but not with the prediction of 4a/5c. It could certainly be helpful to have some recent improved scores.

I wouldn't highlight his "hard work" (however praiseworthy).
See: "Janet"
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... aneous#e24

I think I would make a bit more of the maturity issue, and spell out at this point his exact date of birth!

I note that the school is being very supportive. Does that mean the confidence matter, and the reassurance about timing, are dealt with in their letter?

What is the purpose of the "Outside of his academic achievements" section?
I hope it isn't:
      Quote:
      j) tell the panel how much the school will benefit from having the child as a pupil (“This is a clever, responsible, hardworking pupil with numerous extra-curricular interests”!)
      "How not to win an oversubscription appeal"
      http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c21

You could probably include the first three points at the end of your academic section as examples of academic interests outside of the curriculum.

Points 4-5 seem irrelevant to an appeal.

Point 6 could probably be incorporated into your section about reasons for wanting a place?

You make the argument about three sciences, but would you say science is one of his strengths? (The 4a in Y5 suggests it could be, but there's no prediction for Y6, as it's not a requirement.) If you are in a position to highlight some good evidence of ability in science, the issue of separate sciences becomes so much more important.

Is there any particular reason why the choice of a second language matters?

Just my view - but I hope it's of some help. :)

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 18
thank you for your voices of logic and reasoning Etienne and Capers123!

Etienne wrote:
The optional Y5 SAT of 4a fits with the Y6 target of 5b, but not with the prediction of 4a/5c. It could certainly be helpful to have some recent improved scores.
- he has reported great scores in what I assume are mock SATs - I will ask school if they indicate further progress. Could I link this to the maturity argument too?

Etienne wrote:
I wouldn't highlight his "hard work" (however praiseworthy).
See: "Janet"
- I noted Janet the other day! - I planned to explain the sharp contrast between a usual level of application and the total lack of engagement with practicing papers/ full on fights! (again maybe linked to maturity)

Etienne wrote:
I note that the school is being very supportive. Does that mean the confidence matter, and the reassurance about timing, are dealt with in their letter?
the letter covers timing but not confidence. He has a reputation for being bad under testing in school. Is there a way of phrasing that without righting him off for GCSE success?!

Etienne wrote:
What is the purpose of the "Outside of his academic achievements" section?

oops I fell into the trap of aiming this at school (and the local reputation) not the panel - I will underplay at the hearing!

Etienne wrote:
You make the argument about three sciences, but would you say science is one of his strengths? (The 4a in Y5 suggests it could be, but there's no prediction for Y6, as it's not a requirement.) If you are in a position to highlight some good evidence of ability in science, the issue of separate sciences becomes so much more important.

I will investigate. I did note the example in the Q and A section and can say it will be a necessity for his current career aspirations.

again so many thanks for your time (I wish that I had had the courage to post earlier!)


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:36 am 
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Posts: 3579
Quote:
I noted Janet the other day! - I planned to explain the sharp contrast between a usual level of application and the total lack of engagement with practicing papers/ full on fights! (again maybe linked to maturity)


Hi,

Hope you don't mind me commenting/reading your thread as a fellow appellant.

I am sure etienne will comment, but this sounds scarily negative to me, plus are we not all supposed to pretend that out kids just walk off the street into the test, with no practice?
His confidence in tests will hopefully be backed up by his reported good mock sats results, you need to get hold of those scores, preferably a school headed letter signed by teacher to confirm.
Rather than mention how poorly he reacted to the 11+test practice papers, big up how well he is reacting to current testing and how mature he is about tackling revision now. For me any mention of "full on fights" would be dressed down as "he showed anxiety towards being tested when he was in year 5, which he has now overcome with maturity and the reassurance of having continued teacher led practice at Sat testing throughout the later part of year 6" or something Similar.

Just my thoughts, again, hope don't take offence.

Ps. Both of mine have had full on tantrums about doing practice papers, so I am not judging you or your boy....I cannot say I blame them tbh, but it is soul destroying for us parents at the time!


Last edited by southbucks3 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:58 pm
Posts: 18
hi southbucks3

absolutely none taken! (would add a smilie but can't make them work!!)

thank you for your post - it is a great reminder to me that I need to phrase things better and place a more positive spin on them in the hearing. You worded it brilliantly.

all the very best with your appeal


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Posts: 724
Just in regard to the three sciences - I think it would be worth investigating what your local schools do. An increasing number of schools now offer all three sciences as standard, before further option selection. Also be sure that his future career needs triple science - eg: my niece only did double science at GCSE but is now at Cambridge studying to be a doctor.

The grammar that my daughter will start in September only offer double science at the moment and she would have to take the other as an option. However if she were to go to either of two local comprehensives she would do three separate sciences as standard (assuming she would be in the top half of the year group).

I think what I'm trying to say is that maybe don't put too much emphasis on this as a reason...


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 Post subject: Re: ranking of appeals
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:37 am 
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Posts: 7063
southbucks3 wrote:
I am sure etienne will comment, but this sounds scarily negative to me
I saw no problem with the original brief mention, but I did start to have some concerns with "I planned to explain the sharp contrast between a usual level of application and the total lack of engagement with practicing papers/ full on fights!".

SB3's suggested approach is good.

FluffyCat wrote:
Just in regard to the three sciences - I think it would be worth investigating what your local schools do.
Again, I've had the advantage of seeing the written version. The mention of three sciences is so concise it couldn't be emphasised less! - and it does need some sort of brief justification. The reference to future career should be fine. Whatever the precise requirements for a particular university, I think an appellant could reasonably argue that the best preparation would be three separate sciences.

Good point about knowing what other local schools offer. I do know in this case that the allocated school doesn't offer three sciences.

inyourowntime wrote:
he has reported great scores in what I assume are mock SATs - I will ask school if they indicate further progress. Could I link this to the maturity argument too?
Absolutely! :)

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Etienne


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