Go to navigation
It is currently Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:21 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Profile of appellants
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5923
Reading some of the threads on here, and with absolutely no disrespect to the poor posters who are in the throes of appealing for grammar school places, has made me wonder if anyone has ever looked at whether certain types of people are more likely to submit appeals and then go on to succeed in them.

I ask this because it isn't everyone who would be able to consider employing educational psychologists, for example, or who would have the nerve to go into a school and question the head teacher, ask him or her to rephrase bits of their report, that type of thing. I wonder if people without this 'cultural capital' as well as the financial capital to do it, are put off from trying to appeal in the first place. I wonder also if panels are swayed by ed psych reports to an extent which would relatively disadvantage those who can't afford them, don't know about them or plain just don't want their child assessed in that way.

Just a few thoughts, not necessarily looking for answers as I doubt there are any - just interested as from where I am looking it does look as if this is another area in which less rich or less knowledgeable or assertive parents may again be disadvantaged by the 11 plus system.

And again, good luck to all appealing - it sounds horrible and my interest in this angle is academic not personal. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:45 pm
Posts: 66
Hi Amber
I, too, find this fascinating. I'm sure there are plenty of children with a similar ability to DS who would not have got his score because their parents didn't spend £50 on books and sit with them in the summer holidays and encourage them. By the same token, I'm sure there are plenty of children with a similar ability to DS that passed the test by some margin as they attend a school that embraces the 11+ and informs their parents on the process and pitfalls.
It's the same with the appeals process. DS came *this* close but, because he attends a school where the 11+ is a dirty word and requesting levels is frowned upon, his review case is weakened by unimpressive headteacher support and not-as-good-as-they-could-have-been-if-I'd-known levels. We couldn't afford a tutor. We can't afford an EP. Still, at least I'm computer literate enough (just!) to research and ask. I do feel like I'm learning lots of things too late to help DS though. But at least I'm here. I suspect there a lots of children that don't have that luxury....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:03 pm
Posts: 1382
Interesting ... The thought of appealing would never have occurred to me; had DS not scored highly enough, we would have thought 'oh well' and moved on ...

BUT his second choice school was great too and wasn't really 'second' just different. I guess the 'will' to appeal will depend on many different local factors across the regions.

JD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 245
I do think a lot comes from the parents and what type of education they have had and what they expect or want for their children. It's a very personal choice and the 11+ will always be a an emotive subject.
Personally at our school they're are lots of very able children that are suited to Grammar school however most of the parents are not bothered either way, choosing a school round the corner as location is the key for them. As we know Grammars are not perfect, I have many friends with experiences that are not all positive and some who now wish their child is at an upper ( some are presently thinking of switching). That's why I'm not 100% sure I'm making the right decision and took the advice from the head. Even though it's my daughter's ambition and she was devastated. That's why I do feel the outcome of the review will be what's right for my daughter .

As many uppers are now being flooded with level 4/5 and 6's I know many friends that don't want to even enter into the 11+ prep as many now see it as unattainable . :? Dolly x


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 11956
I think this website goes a little way towards evening out the process and I've helped a number of parents with appeals over the years.

[To be fair there was always at least 10% of children in Uppers with three level 5s even ten years ago .. and I know about a few level 6s in Year 9 under the 'old 11+'. The proportion of children with level 5s is very high in Bucks so there's no way they'd all be in Uppers.]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5923
What about the Ed Psych thing though? Would a panel be swayed? Is it a disadvantage not to have one? Personally I wouldn't want that kind of information about my child to be available to others, and don't even think I want it for myself - it feels a bit of an intrusion into their personal brain space if there isn't a pathology or learning issue to worry about. It seems a bit scary if people feel they need to get these things.

I've helped with two appeals - neither for selective schools actually - one for a reception place and one for an in-year place at an oversubscribed secondary. In both cases the parents were intelligent and caring but just didn't know 'the system' and how to play it. Both were successful and I may be flattering myself but I do wonder if they would have been if they had gone in 'blind' .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7064
Quote:
What about the Ed Psych thing though? Would a panel be swayed?
Not necessarily - usually it would only be part of the evidence, and it depends on what it says.

Quote:
Is it a disadvantage not to have one?
Not if you already have sufficient evidence!

It is sometimes useful in diagnosing a specific learning difficulty that no one had recognised before, and which might help explain underperformance.

It could be useful in situations where the academic evidence is very limited, e.g. an out of county primary school that refuses to co-operate with any 11+ arrangements, or a child who's arrived recently from abroad.

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:25 pm
Posts: 2610
This is an interesting question and something that concerns me when I realised the high percentage of DC that had to go through review or appeal to get Grammar places in Bucks last year. Personally I believe it is very impotant to have this fall back in place for those whose performance on the day is not a true reflection of their academic ability for whatever reason. It does however favour those DC whose parents know the system, who are fortunate enough to have a supportive head teacher who and also understand that the test result may not be a true reflection of ability.( still :shock: by the number of posters that write ' well if my DC doesn't get the result I will accept that Grammar isn't for them'. Actually your DCs primary record and intellect should be the decider not a one day test.)

In regards to EPs I think the cost in this country is shocking and in my opinion results in far too many DC with specific learning difficulties not getting the required support they need to realise their true potential. But then I am not a fan of UK SEN provision full stop and never have been.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016