Extra time in KS2 SATS

[salsa]

Fascinating! How do you assess the gifted part? I have heard of many cases where the child brightness masks the learning difficulty such as dyslexia. The child then is deemed average or below average. What tests do they do?

[Bumblebeez]

How do you assess the gifted part?

I'm sure it differs depending on the child's profile, because these things are subtle and complex and vary widely. Usually, high WISC and/or WRIT scores would indicate gifted. WISC and WRIT are administered and interpreted by Specialist Teachers and educational psychologists. In school, in the case of my DCs, reading age has always been far higher than their levels would suggest, but in line with strong verbal skills.

[salsa]

Are these private tests? If your child is apparently average, what would make you think they are doubly exceptional?
I suspect that at state schools they would not perform any tests unless the child is below average. Therefore you may never know they are dyslexic, say mildly, because the difficulty is masked by high ability.

[Bumblebeez]

Are these private tests?

Yes.

If your child is apparently average, what would make you think they are doubly exceptional?

In our family, they didn't seem apparently average. They seemed to be exceptional in some ways (lively curiosity, advanced vocabulary, able to grasp complex thoughts quickly and with maturity) and then to perform surprisingly badly in other ways (mostly, avoiding writing and slow to acquire and use it). There is also a very strong family history of the same pattern: my children have the benefit of being the youngest set of similarly affected cousins, so I'd seen it all, the struggles and highs and lows, before it came to mine reaching school.

I suspect that at state schools they would not perform any tests unless the child is below average.

In general, yes, I think there are few resources for bright disabled children who are somehow managing to keep up with expected levels. However, one DD did perform so erratically in her annual VR tests at (state) junior school that school were concerned and the SENCO investigated it. The school screening test is not as thorough or flexible as assessment that you can arrange privately. Two DDs have had school assessments done by SENCOs. I appreciate the attempt but the SENCO is doing this as a small part of a very busy broader school role, and even with the same qualifications is seldom as expert as someone who does it full time. In both cases, the school test was not anywhere near as useful in diagnosing and explaining the problem as the independent tests. Independent tests too can be of varying quality. Trust your instinct about your child.

Therefore you may never know they are dyslexic, say mildly, because the difficulty is masked by high ability.

I'm sure that is true, and it is very sad. It can lead to all sorts of emotional difficulties and frustrations. I'm not sure how useful the term mild is in the context of dyslexia, or how carefully it is used. For example, if you graduate from Oxford with a 2.1, people might assume that your dyslexia is mild and that it doesn't affect you very seriously. However, you might have an IQ on the 99th centile and a processing speed on the 1st centile, which is pretty extreme and unusual, and without support and adjustment you might not have achieved as well, in other words, closer to your potential.

[salsa]

This is all very interesting. I do think that many SENCOs are under resourced at state primaries and that tend to concentrate on children that are under performing. I have also learned about very able children being assessed for dyslexia and coming out as non dyslexic. A private test has then revealed otherwise, but the test not been accepted. The only thing is that parents could then insists on a retest via the school.

Going back to your daughter, it's good that you were aware of the family history and could get the help in place.
Did she get any extra time for the 11+?
When is you appeal? Won't it be before you get SAT results?
I wonder how a panel would react. On the one hand here is an able child who would benefit from grammar school. On the other hand, will they worry that due to her dyslexia she will struggle at that particular school?
What percentage of SEN children does the school have? I bet it's small. Is this something in your favour? Saying they should cater for all children, etc? Or would it work against you? Could they say that SEN children do not cope well? Is this even legal?

[Etienne]

On the other hand, will they worry that due to her dyslexia she will struggle at that particular school?
........... Could they say that SEN children do not cope well?

I would hope not!

The issue for the panel is academic ability, not "How will the child cope?".

The Appeals Code is clear:

• • the panel must only uphold the appeal if it is satisfied:
    i) that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of the required academic standards ......... and
    ii) where applicable, that the appellant’s arguments outweigh the admission authority’s case that admission of additional children would cause prejudice."

[Bumblebeez]

Did she get any extra time for the 11+?

No, because no-one had the right diagnosis at the time, she didn't meet the criteria.

When is you appeal? Won't it be before you get SAT results?

The appeal will be before we get her Year 6 SATS. If the appeal fails, 12+ becomes an option if she has 3 level 5s in place.

I wonder how a panel would react. On the one hand here is an able child who would benefit from grammar school. On the other hand, will they worry that due to her dyslexia she will struggle at that particular school?
What percentage of SEN children does the school have? I bet it's small. Is this something in your favour? Saying they should cater for all children, etc? Or would it work against you? Could they say that SEN children do not cope well? Is this even legal?

The two grammars we are considering both have very good Additional Needs support. In my experience SEN children are far better supported at secondary than junior school. I don't know what the overall percentage is. At DD1 and DD2s grammar they were in the approximately 2% that qualified for extra time in public exams. I know far more children are on the SEN radar and being supported than meet the very strict rules for extra time.

Could they say that SEN children do not cope well?

I would hope not!

I hope so too! We have to point out the nature of the disability to explain why DD didn't pass the 11+. I wish we didn't have to and could simply concentrate on her strengths. I take comfort from knowing that last time we went to appeal we had a fair panel who took the time to understand the complexity and accepted this argument .

[salsa]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you have appealed for another child at the school? If so, could you use this argument to illustrate the fact that the school copes well with a SEN child and it's the best place for your daughter? Also, if your daughter is doing well at grammar, doesn't this show that you are a supportive parent who can identify when your child will do well?
What support would your daughter had had if she had been tested before the test?

[Bumblebeez]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you have appealed for another child at the school?

Yes

If so, could you use this argument to illustrate the fact that the school copes well with a SEN child and it's the best place for your daughter? Also, if your daughter is doing well at grammar, doesn't this show that you are a supportive parent who can identify when your child will do well?

Seems reasonable, doesn't it Salsa? I hope the panel sees it that way too. On the other hand, there are warnings all over this site NOT to appeal on the grounds that because elder siblings are thriving in GS, so will this one ...

What support would your daughter had had if she had been tested before the test?

Well, she was tested 18 months before, by an ed psych. It wasn't a brilliantly insightful analysis but there was enough there to show bright + disabled, and of course the school knew the family pattern from DD2. No adjustments in the way she was taught or assessed were made for her disability, and school said it was too old to use to ask for extra time for the 11+ (this was in fact incorrect, up to 2 years would have been fine, with some minor updates from school) so school Senco carried out some tests. Inexplicably, the slow processing speed wasn't investigated thoroughly, so there were almost no signs of dyslexia and she was not allowed extra time. The very good report we had done in October (post 11+ result) has seen school try to help: writing slope, trialing extra time, introducing a word processor (not often) for writing.

[salsa]

Isn't that enough? The school made a mistake when they didn't apply for more time for your daughter to do the test.
Well, more than saying that her sibling is thriving, I mean that you must have inside knowledge of school's strengths that could be essential for you daughter's schooling. I mean, a way of showing them that only that school will do and that your daughter would be at a disadvantage at her allocated school. Do you have an angle? Do you think your daughter will be equally catered for at her allocated school?