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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:02 am 
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Ds failed the 11+ with a score of 113, far lower than was expected of him. We found out yesterday that we were also unsuccessful in review. Two thoughts: 1st, in the review paperwork they appear to have an incorrect school recommendation, stating it as 1:2 when my paperwork says 1:1. Would this have had an affect on the review decision and therefore be grounds worth appealing upon? And 2nd, the reason stated for not being successful in the review is that his low CAT results were consistent with the STTS, indicating my son is not suitable for GS. Even though his CAT scores were low, again these are not consistent with his academic achievements which have been consistently very high throughout KS2. Is academic evidence NOT consistent with CAT scores evidence enough to be successful at appeal? I don't know whether to go through the stress of appeal and don't want to if we are unlikely to be successful. But at the same time feel whole heartedly he would thrive at GS. Any advice gratefully received, feeling pretty distraught about the whole thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Hello, and welcome!

Your essential reading for this is Section D, here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41358

jpclgerard wrote:
1st, in the review paperwork they appear to have an incorrect school recommendation, stating it as 1:2 when my paperwork says 1:1. Would this have had an affect on the review decision and therefore be grounds worth appealing upon?

It is certainly a point in your favour when seeking to overturn the Review decision. How can the Review have been "Fair" (as in "Fair, Consistent and Objective") when a key piece of information appears to be incorrect? Was the discrepancy noted by the panel? If so, where is the evidence of that? (There won't be any ...)

Whether it is enough to overturn "F, C, O" is less clear. It will depend on how accurate the Head's recommendations were overall (and whether that recommendation was made before the test result was known.) If you can demonstrate to the panel that, in all probability, the incorrect recommendation would have been a significant factor in the Review Panel's decision-making - and you will only be able to do that once you have seen the recommendations - then it is possible that the panel would overturn F, C, O.

(There may be other points you can make about the Review process, as per the link above.)

Quote:
And 2nd, the reason stated for not being successful in the review is that his low CAT results were consistent with the STTS, indicating my son is not suitable for GS. Even though his CAT scores were low, again these are not consistent with his academic achievements which have been consistently very high throughout KS2.

CAT scores are widely considered to be reliable indicators of academic potential, which presents you with the issue of explaining why they aren't higher. However, appeal panels are trained to understand that CAT scores are not directly comparable with 11+ scores.

If there is only one set of scores, as is often the case for state schools, the scores might be discounted as less reliable, and the academic evidence considered to be more representative of your son's ability. If, however, there are two or more sets of scores and they are all in the region of the 11+ score, your case would be weakened considerably.

Quote:
Is academic evidence NOT consistent with CAT scores evidence enough to be successful at appeal?

It very much depends on the strength of that academic evidence and how credible it is. For example, if your son had already achieved Level 5s across the board in Year 5, that could possibly trounce a single set of CAT scores.

Quote:
I don't know whether to go through the stress of appeal and don't want to if we are unlikely to be successful.

I'm sorry to say that it will indeed be very stressful because you are unlikely to know the outcome of the appeal until June or possibly July. That may also mean that your appeal will need to cover oversubscription if your preferred school no longer has any vacancies. That adds a further layer of stress.

Whether to go ahead with an appeal probably rests entirely on whether the alternative school is acceptable or completely unpalatable to you and your son.

If the Head is approachable, I suggest that you start by asking for sight of their overall Recommendations.

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am reading through the link, there's a tonne of information there!

It turns out that school had misinformed me. My son was given a 1:2 recommendation, as noted on the review form. Unfortunately this was my main evidence that our review was not FCO, so will have to have a look at all the information you kindly supply in the above link.

Speaking to our head, they now believe that by the end of year 6 they would happily give him a 1:1 recommendation, he seems to have matured over the last three months and they have seen and remarked a change in him. I would hope they would be happy to supply this information in an additional report, should we go to appeal.

We do only have one set of CAT scores, and, I need to verify as we have just moved house and I can't lay my hands on the papers, but if I remember correctly, he achieved level 5s in everything except Science.

The alternative school is completely unacceptable - on a number of levels it simply will not suit our son and will not allow him to achieve to his full capability. I know it's useless 'bashing the system', but there were many children with lower levels throughout KS2 who have passed the 11+, and this result, therefore, does not appear to be a true representation of my son's capabilities. The whole thing is pure frustration.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:02 pm 
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jpclgerard wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am reading through the link, there's a tonne of information there!

It turns out that school had misinformed me. My son was given a 1:2 recommendation, as noted on the review form. Unfortunately this was my main evidence that our review was not FCO, so will have to have a look at all the information you kindly supply in the above link.

Speaking to our head, they now believe that by the end of year 6 they would happily give him a 1:1 recommendation, he seems to have matured over the last three months and they have seen and remarked a change in him. I would hope they would be happy to supply this information in an additional report, should we go to appeal.

We do only have one set of CAT scores, and, I need to verify as we have just moved house and I can't lay my hands on the papers, but if I remember correctly, he achieved level 5s in everything except Science.

The alternative school is completely unacceptable - on a number of levels it simply will not suit our son and will not allow him to achieve to his full capability. I know it's useless 'bashing the system', but there were many children with lower levels throughout KS2 who have passed the 11+, and this result, therefore, does not appear to be a true representation of my son's capabilities. The whole thing is pure frustration.


Have you thought about the 12+? Every year children who have not qualified under the 11+ get through the 12+ as they have had an extra year to mature. Of course by then the schools may be full so that is another hurdle but many have spaces in year 8 & one or two are even adding extra classes at year 8 (I believe Burnham Grammar has been doing this, although I'm not sure if it is every year).


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Yes, we have thought about the 12+ and we haven't ruled it out. In fact from reading on here, it appears it is easier to pass that the 11+. However, it would still mean a year at a school we have serious concerns about.

I should add that during one of the papers, the school were provided with the wrong CD and therefore the timings were wrong. Although they apparently calculated for this in their marking, they did not take into account the emotional effect this would have had on the children for the remainder of the paper. The problem has been documented and noted on the review, but they have not explained how they have discounted this as extenuating circumstances. Just says 'evidence considered'. I can't believe they can discount this so flippantly.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Quote:
'The school were provided with the wrong CD'


Sorry, you need to explore this more - they must have had the right CD if the test was able to continue, so was it a school error?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:12 pm 
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No, I'm afraid the school were provided with the wrong CD by the LA. The school decided to proceed with the test using the timings on the CD, which were 30 seconds shorter than the timings stated at the top of the test papers. They used the other paper as a basis to mark the one with the wrong timings, but this didn't take into account of course, the furore that took place in the exam room when the kids noticed the error. They then had to proceed immediately with the test. We were told it would be considered in 'extenuating circumstances', but it does not appear to have made a difference, which I, and others, feel is unfair.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Is this a Bucks CC Primary or a Partner school? It sounds very strange indeed - I don't know how they feel they can extrapolate a score from a shortened time. I cannot see how your review can have been FCO ...

Personally I'd go for an appeal given that the alternative is not ideal - you have nothing to lose.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:27 pm 
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It's a Bucks CC Primary. As I say we've just moved house and my papers are still at the old house, otherwise I'd share the text of the letter as to how they came up with the scores. It was dissatisfactory at the time, and even more so now.

I've had news from the Head today that they strongly believe we have grounds to appeal. We have a meeting after half term.

Thanks for the support here. Will keep posting, if tat's ok. I'm finding the whole thing very stressful already!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:43 pm 
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You've come to the right place to get help and support :)

Many of us have been there, done that and got the T-shirt. I think the Head's support is key here to describe the distress and chaos that such an error would have made to the children.

In my opinion as a maths specialist I cannot think of any fair way they can extrapolate to get a score - it would affect every child differently.

When you get your letters [review and original results] from your old home I would send them to the appeals box on here so our resident experts can look at them.


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