11+ Paper Was Switched-Upset Kids Results. Appeals Advice??
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Essex Girl
switched papers
Dear guest,
I don't see why such a psycologist should need to speak to your child. It strikes me that anyone who is an experienced psycologist should be able to advise how the human mind would work in relation to this experience.
The panel will look at all evidence objectively.
I don't see why such a psycologist should need to speak to your child. It strikes me that anyone who is an experienced psycologist should be able to advise how the human mind would work in relation to this experience.
The panel will look at all evidence objectively.
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guest101
mmmmmmmm
Not so sure about that - rather simplistic. They are psycHologists - not mind readers.
At the appeal Anng, and others from the same school, would have to show that their own child had been significantly affected by writing a story before the maths paper, rather than after the maths paper, or by having to wait in the school hall a few minutes before starting.
I don't suppose there have been any large scale psychological experiments as to what effect this has on an 11 year old's maths performance - probably for good reason.
So I can't see other than how taking some money for a rather vague answer an educational psych could say anything useful without meeting the child. One would somehow have to be able to show that this particular child was affected in such a way that it adversely affected his maths performance sufficiently to lower his performance from a certain pass to a fail.
AE tuition made some points about change in structure, routine, expectations etc affecting an 11 year olds performance. I'm sure this is true, but is this a useful argument in this situation? The 11+ is putting the children out of routine for a couple of days anyhow. Many will have practised some papers beforehand, but I'm sure they will not be into a routine of starting on the dot of 9:30, or always writing a story after the maths paper rather than beforehand.
It is of course good practice that such tests are provided under as uniform conditions as possible for everyone, but this is not to say that minor variations from these would affect all children's performance adversely. Some variations have to be accepted as each school is providing slightly different physical conditions under which to take the test - different lighting, different temperatures, different chairs, different noises outside the exam room etc. These might have as much effect on maths results as to whether or not a story is written before the maths.
At the appeal Anng, and others from the same school, would have to show that their own child had been significantly affected by writing a story before the maths paper, rather than after the maths paper, or by having to wait in the school hall a few minutes before starting.
I don't suppose there have been any large scale psychological experiments as to what effect this has on an 11 year old's maths performance - probably for good reason.
So I can't see other than how taking some money for a rather vague answer an educational psych could say anything useful without meeting the child. One would somehow have to be able to show that this particular child was affected in such a way that it adversely affected his maths performance sufficiently to lower his performance from a certain pass to a fail.
AE tuition made some points about change in structure, routine, expectations etc affecting an 11 year olds performance. I'm sure this is true, but is this a useful argument in this situation? The 11+ is putting the children out of routine for a couple of days anyhow. Many will have practised some papers beforehand, but I'm sure they will not be into a routine of starting on the dot of 9:30, or always writing a story after the maths paper rather than beforehand.
It is of course good practice that such tests are provided under as uniform conditions as possible for everyone, but this is not to say that minor variations from these would affect all children's performance adversely. Some variations have to be accepted as each school is providing slightly different physical conditions under which to take the test - different lighting, different temperatures, different chairs, different noises outside the exam room etc. These might have as much effect on maths results as to whether or not a story is written before the maths.
Sorry, this has nothing to do with the original post!
Dear Stephen Curran,
As I believe that you have a good knowledge of the 11+ in Slough, I would be really grateful (on behalf of a friend ) if you could give some insight about the appeal system for this LEA. There has been a few questions in the Appeals thread of the Berkshire section, but no luck in receiving any information.
Many thank you for your help
Catherine
Dear Stephen Curran,
As I believe that you have a good knowledge of the 11+ in Slough, I would be really grateful (on behalf of a friend ) if you could give some insight about the appeal system for this LEA. There has been a few questions in the Appeals thread of the Berkshire section, but no luck in receiving any information.
Many thank you for your help
Catherine
Last edited by Catherine on Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
I think that this would make a difference. The children were waiting, the school staff were flustered, there was a delay. The children would have picked up on the teachers' dilemma on how to proceed and the fact that there was some kerfuffle involved - added to this the children were already nervous. I would think the children at the school were rattled.
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Essex Girl
response
Guest101,
Thank you so much for your kind spelling correction. Did I detect a hint of sarcasm? Obviously not, we are all in this together I believe. Anyway, you may be right, my comments may be somewhat simplistic but you have to remember that appealing is, more often than not, a straw clutching experience and any advice/info is usually better than none.
In Essex the children are advised which order the tests come in but I cant speak for other counties.
Imagine the following scenario:-
If two people in different locations were in a race to make a cake, the prize being that your mortgage is paid off for you, and the first had all their ingredients and the second noticed that the sugar was missing, would the second not be slightly flustered by the adjudicator having to go and hunt for the sugar and bring it back. The second cake maker might be thinking... what if there is no sugar, what if they don't have the right sugar to bake the cake with, etc, etc. It is likely that by the time the sugar does arrive, the competitor's heart will be beating a little quicker and they may not be as at ease as the other competitor.
Therefore, advantage to the competitor, yes?
Thank you so much for your kind spelling correction. Did I detect a hint of sarcasm? Obviously not, we are all in this together I believe. Anyway, you may be right, my comments may be somewhat simplistic but you have to remember that appealing is, more often than not, a straw clutching experience and any advice/info is usually better than none.
In Essex the children are advised which order the tests come in but I cant speak for other counties.
Imagine the following scenario:-
If two people in different locations were in a race to make a cake, the prize being that your mortgage is paid off for you, and the first had all their ingredients and the second noticed that the sugar was missing, would the second not be slightly flustered by the adjudicator having to go and hunt for the sugar and bring it back. The second cake maker might be thinking... what if there is no sugar, what if they don't have the right sugar to bake the cake with, etc, etc. It is likely that by the time the sugar does arrive, the competitor's heart will be beating a little quicker and they may not be as at ease as the other competitor.
Therefore, advantage to the competitor, yes?
Dear All
This all goes to show that ,as with the 11 plus exam, we also need to know 'How To Play the System' with regards to the appeals process.
Etienne has posted some lengthy pieces of advice on appeals in the Bucks section, look for the one with over 13,000 visitors, page 3 onwards. Her advice is applicable to the whole of the country, all offered freely!
Dear Etienne
Have you thought of consolidating your knowledge of the appeals process into one section on the main website, that way everybody gains The website, yourself and most importantly, guests wishing to appeal.
Patricia
This all goes to show that ,as with the 11 plus exam, we also need to know 'How To Play the System' with regards to the appeals process.
Etienne has posted some lengthy pieces of advice on appeals in the Bucks section, look for the one with over 13,000 visitors, page 3 onwards. Her advice is applicable to the whole of the country, all offered freely!
Dear Etienne
Have you thought of consolidating your knowledge of the appeals process into one section on the main website, that way everybody gains The website, yourself and most importantly, guests wishing to appeal.
Patricia
Last edited by patricia on Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
What a great idea Patricia!
It would be very helpful if Etienne could put her views and expertise in one place on the forum. The thread on Appeals under Bucks has become rather unwieldy for a first time visitor to use. I have referred a couple of people to it and they have commented that it is very hard to follow unless you were part of it.
Sally-Anne
It would be very helpful if Etienne could put her views and expertise in one place on the forum. The thread on Appeals under Bucks has become rather unwieldy for a first time visitor to use. I have referred a couple of people to it and they have commented that it is very hard to follow unless you were part of it.
Sally-Anne
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Romeo
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mother appealing
11 plus paper mix up
My child also experienced the mix up with the maths paper. Unfortunately she only got 97 in her maths (passed VR and NVR). We are planning to appeal as in her mock 11 plus paper she scored 122. My child is very sensitive and would have found this situation hard to deal with. Does anyone know if this mock result will help us in any way?
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guest101
mock 11+ paper
What do you mean by a mock 11+ paper? Etienne may be able to say whether or not it would help if you explain a bit more. However as it's not a mark that is way above the passmark, so even if the panel took high "mock" marks as strong evidence a child should have passed, this may not be the best evidence of maths ability that you could produce.
Without more detail on the mixup with the exam papers, I still find it hard to believe that it could have produced sufficient distress and disruption to have the sort of impact on a child that an appeal panel would find a convincing reason as to why a child of 11+ standard in maths would fail on the day. There has to be more to your appeal than this I would have thought. Otherwise it may just look as though everyone from that particular school who failed the maths is conveniently picking on this as a reason.
Sorry if people found my previous comments on this harsh, but I don't think there's much point in everyone just writing in saying yes that sounds like a great appeal point, when in reality it may not be sufficient.
Without more detail on the mixup with the exam papers, I still find it hard to believe that it could have produced sufficient distress and disruption to have the sort of impact on a child that an appeal panel would find a convincing reason as to why a child of 11+ standard in maths would fail on the day. There has to be more to your appeal than this I would have thought. Otherwise it may just look as though everyone from that particular school who failed the maths is conveniently picking on this as a reason.
Sorry if people found my previous comments on this harsh, but I don't think there's much point in everyone just writing in saying yes that sounds like a great appeal point, when in reality it may not be sufficient.