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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Hello,

I need help with my son's appeal for Dartford Grammar. He scored 339, missed 4 marks in English. His yr 5 SAT grades where : Reading 5B, Writing 5C and Maths 5A. His HT didn't appeal his results. I finally got a supporting letter from his school. We live about 5 miles away from Dartford Grammar School. I got a call from the Clerk on Saturday to confirm my attendance..... not sure whether this is a good sign.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Location: Petts Wood, Bromley, Kent
I am sure you are aware of this but there will be boys who passed the test who still don't qualify for Dartford as the qualifying IC score was 351 this year so even had your son got a pass with 339 and not dropped the marks in the English paper he wouldn't have qualified by a fairly significant margin. If being 5 miles away you are OOC then the qualifying score is even higher. Your case will need to show not only why he was 4 points adrift on the English but also 12 points (as an IC candidate) overall or 36 as an OOC candidate which is going to be a hard ask. Sorry.

I gather the FAQs linked to from here viewtopic.php?f=35&t=35032 are a wealth of information so if you haven't already do check there


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Many thanks...... I am confused about OOC and IC. The threshold statement I received stated to be placed on PELE 3 (G) , A PUPIL NEEDS: AN AGGREGATED SCORE OF 320 OR MORE, WITH NO SINGLE SCORE LOWER THAN 106 BUT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T MEET THE 106 AGGREGATED SCORE IN ENGLISH HE'S PLACED ON PELE 3 (H). KINDLY EXPLAIN ......am so confused.....pls help


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 6:59 pm 
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Sorry I meant PESE 3


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 7:24 pm 
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Location: Petts Wood, Bromley, Kent
Most Kent grammars just require a pass, that was 320 this year, their oversubscription criteria then goes on other things like distance. Some schools however go by score and Dartford is one of those. They have 90 places for boys in the defined parishes. Then 90 places I believe for those not in the defined parishes (often called Out of Catchment/county or OOC for short). It is all written out in their admissions procedure. They then allocate based on score so you need more than a pass. The requirement this year on offer day was 351 if you were in the defined area (IC), or 375 for OOC. This can change over time as places get given up but not usually by much. I am worried that of this is news to you and you didn't know before now that you really need to do a lot of research and start with the FAQs on this site that I linked to earlier. I am not an expert so can't help you but wanted to reply to your post with some information.

I appreciate your son missed out on qualifying for the English by 4 points and 339 would be a credible score under normal circumstances and so for a 'need a pass' grammar then only missing out by a few points is easier to argue on appeal. However for a school like Dartford that selects on score 339 even if it were a pass is quite significantly off the required standard. Your son is obviously very capable to have done so well in the test and just have a small blip and I suspect your chances would be good at many grammars - for Dartford the bar is that much higher and your son will be competing in the appeal process with other candidates who may be appealing and passed all the elements but maybe got 350 so only just missed out.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 10:31 pm 
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Location: Essex
tbakare wrote:
Many thanks...... I am confused about OOC and IC. The threshold statement I received stated to be placed on PELE 3 (G) , A PUPIL NEEDS: AN AGGREGATED SCORE OF 320 OR MORE, WITH NO SINGLE SCORE LOWER THAN 106 BUT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T MEET THE 106 AGGREGATED SCORE IN ENGLISH HE'S PLACED ON PELE 3 (H). KINDLY EXPLAIN ......am so confused.....pls help


The G means a child has been assessed as qualified for a Grammar School place and the H means suitable for a High School (non Grammar School / secondary modern / all-ability or however they are categorised in Kent). It may seem a bit harsh that a child can achieve the highest standardised score in areas, for example, but fail due to a standardised mark below the threshold in the third, but obviously Kent CC has decided that in order to be assessed as suitable for a grammar school, a certain minimum standard has to be met in all areas.

Like PettswoodFiona, I find it odd that you don't seem to have known how the system works in Kent when you entered your DS for the test? Is it not explained on the KCC website?

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:54 am 
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Thank u @ Toadmum.....I just needed some clarity on Abbreviations OOC and IC. I wasn't aware of the 351 threshold or any other apart from 320 cut off. I dont think it's a crime to seek for advise and clarity.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:51 am 
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Location: Essex
tbakare wrote:
Thank u @ Toadmum.....I just needed some clarity on Abbreviations OOC and IC. I wasn't aware of the 351 threshold or any other apart from 320 cut off. I dont think it's a crime to seek for advise and clarity.


Not suggesting any 'crime' - I obviously misunderstood your 'confusion' to include the terms '(G)' and '(H)', since you had included then in your post :) .

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:04 am 
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tbakare wrote:
Thank u @ Toadmum.....I just needed some clarity on Abbreviations OOC and IC. I wasn't aware of the 351 threshold or any other apart from 320 cut off. I dont think it's a crime to seek for advise and clarity.

Hi. Sorry you child didn't pass the test in spite of his good SAT levels. Once you appeal it shouldn't matter the score or where you live. All that should matter is whether the school is the only school your child could flourish in. Therefore, you need to convince the panel that your son has the required level and that not going to that school would be worse for your child than the school having one more child.

Please remember that Dartford is not a super selective school. In practice it is for out of catchment students as they have to get a super selective score. Last year, all in catchment children got a place and the minimum score was the pass rate (320). This year, the score was higher 351, but I don't know how low it went on the waiting list. On another thread, for example, I noticed that another child had got Dartford but wanted Wilmington. Therefore, he may free a space.

So, the best thing is to read the appeals section thoroughly and get supporting evidence of your child ability. There will be 80 or 90 people appealing with possibly very high scores. They also have to convince the panel that their children would not flourish at another school. That's the hard part as the panel could not let all of them in.
With regards to your head teacher not appealing for your child, this is often the case with OOC head teachers, some of them do not know the Kent system or do not bother. Having said that, if your head teacher had appealed your child would not had got a place as the overall score for OOC pupils was 374 this year.

Please remember that the appeals panel is made up of people who are not connected to the school, but that there will be someone from the school and this is usually the head master, but will not decide the outcome. The panel will.
Good luck with the appeal, it won't be easy, but it all depends on your case.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:27 am 
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Location: Petts Wood, Bromley, Kent
I presume you've already submitted your case if you've had a call to confirm attendance at a hearing so it is hard to know what to help you with. If you were unaware of the school's admissions policy did you miss the open day where it would have been explained? I am sorry but looking elsewhere it seems Dartford is the most oversubscribed of the Kent grammars and has huge numbers of appeals normally from those who have passed but missed out by a few points from the qualifying score and very very few of those are upheld. I appreciate it is confusing and a bit late to say this now but for the benefit of others reading this thread perhaps on the approach to the eleven plus - research before the tests into the school admissons policy is very important as I have seen regularly on this forum children who are sat for tests who even if they passed couldn't qualify for the school as there are other criteria like location they need to meet. It just creates a lot of anxiety all round.

I can't answer these but the sort of questions you might be considering include: When is the appeal hearing and given the news about the score do you think your submission is a strong enough case? Have you identified from the admission policy if you fall into IC or OOC? Is there anything else you've read in the FAQs section that might give you more leverage? Is the school you have been offered a good alternative?


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