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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:01 pm 
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My daughter scored very low on the Bucks paper - 88. This was a big surprise to us and the school and we met with them this morning to get their thoughts.

- they scored her a 2:1
- her CATS in year 4 and year 5 were all above 120
- she got level 3's in all of her year 2 SATS
- the was on the gifted and able register for English and Maths in KS1
- her reading age in year 5 was 4 years above her actual age
- the school will give their full backing

I am very aware though that whilst the academic evidence is strong (I think it is - open to views if it's not as strong as I think) we don't have any extenuating circumstances and she was a long way short of the pass mark. I have been through a successful review with my son but not only was he only a few marks short of the qualifying mark he also had strong extenuating circumstances too.

I am worried about going through the selection review (which I am doubtful we will be successful at) and then hindering our chances at an appeal where we would be able to provide more information personally about our daughter.

I'm trying to get my head around what sort of evidence you could use to prove that a review wasn't fair and consistent. I'm not sure how to deal with this side of things so I'm worried about jeopardising a further appeal.

Does anyone have any thoughts about going for the selection review or sitting it out for an appeal?

Finally, is it worth mentioning that my daughter DIDN'T have any outside tutoring or it the 'T' word best left unsaid??

Many thanks in advance


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:27 pm 
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Welcome to Appeals! :)

Have you followed the links to reviews/appeals in Sally-Anne's post?
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=48535

FinalHurdle wrote:
- they scored her a 2:1
This could be all right, but it depends how many of the '2' recommendations qualified. The panel will look at how reliable/realistic the school's overall recommendations have been.

Quote:
- her CATS in year 4 and year 5 were all above 120
How far above?
(The upper 120s might be 'safe'.)

Quote:
- she got level 3's in all of her year 2 SATS
Good!

Quote:
- the was on the gifted and able register for English and Maths in KS1
Depends entirely on the standard within the school. Does it achieve highly?

Quote:
- her reading age in year 5 was 4 years above her actual age
Good, although some reading tests seem to give erratic results.

Quote:
we don't have any extenuating circumstances
As you realise, with such a low score this is going to be difficult.

Quote:
I'm trying to get my head around what sort of evidence you could use to prove that a review wasn't fair and consistent. I'm not sure how to deal with this side of things so I'm worried about jeopardising a further appeal.
If you follow the links mentioned earlier, you will know how to tackle FCO.

Quote:
Finally, is it worth mentioning that my daughter DIDN'T have any outside tutoring ...... ??
Absolutely not. How would you prove a negative?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Thanks Etienne, I appreciate your quick reply. The school are happy to provide me with a breakdown of how accurate their predictions were but they didn't have them to hand this morning. The head said that they reserved their 1:1's for those children who were expected to get over 130.

When my son went through the process they gave him a 1:1 and he was the only one not to get through so I'm hoping this is an indicator that their predictions have a good history.

The head said he gave DD a 2:1 as he sees a 2 as being a very strong recommendation and the 1 for suitability was unquestionable due to DD's attitude to learning but of course I'd feel a little more confident had she been given a 1:1

I know it's a long shot but there's still hope (1 child got through last year at 89 but of course there may have been extenuating circumstances involved) I'm just worried about jeopardising an appeal so I'll read through the documents you've highlighted again


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:59 am 
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FinalHurdle wrote:
- they scored her a 2:1

Her head has confirmed that all of the 1's passed and all but 2 of the 2's passed (including my daughter)

Quote:
- her CATS in year 4 and year 5 were all above 120

Year 4 - waiting for confirmation from the school
Year 5 - 120, 122, 125

Quote:
- she got level 3's in all of her year 2 SATS


Quote:
- her reading age in year 5 was 4 years above her actual age

School have confirmed it was 3-4 years above her actual age from year 1 onwards


Level 5 SATS - English was split into 4 sections and she received 'working above the expected standards' in all 4 areas
Maths was split into 2 sections and she received 'working above the expected standards' in 1 area and
'working at the expected standard'in the other area

I'm waiting for school to confirm her year 6 predictions.

Odd questions for you: Although Science isn't tested in the 11+ she received 'working above the expected standards' in both areas (Investigative skills and Scientific knowledge and understanding) Will this show a rounded high level of achievement or will the panel be laughing that I am desperately putting in science scores?! :lol:

Thanks in advance


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:29 pm 
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Quote:
Her head has confirmed that all of the 1's passed and all but 2 of the 2's passed (including my daughter)
It sounds good. :)

Quote:
Year 4 - waiting for confirmation from the school
Year 5 - 120, 122, 125
It might help if the Y4 scores could push the average into the upper 120s.

Quote:
School have confirmed it was 3-4 years above her actual age from year 1 onwards
The consistency is helpful. :)

Quote:
I'm waiting for school to confirm her year 6 predictions.
Following the abolition of ‘levels’, I think headteachers may be asked to give a predicted range for reading and maths. For writing, there could be a question about ‘greater depth’.
Whatever the constraints of the new system, it is of course possible for the headteacher to comment further in his statement of support.

Quote:
Although Science isn't tested in the 11+ she received 'working above the expected standards' in both areas (Investigative skills and Scientific knowledge and understanding) Will this show a rounded high level of achievement or will the panel be laughing that I am desperately putting in science scores?!
I see no harm in mentioning it. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:06 pm 
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I have just picked up my DD's head teacher report for the Bucks Selection Review and in the year 6 SATS prediction boxes he has purely put 'Working Above Age Expectations' He has not put any scores. Is this a problem?! Will be panel consider the form incomplete? I don't want to go back to him and ask him to redo it if it will be ok with just the wording but I'll have to if you think it will hinder our case.


Many thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:09 pm 
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FinalHurdle wrote:
Guest55 wrote:
FinalHurdle - the review sheet asks Heads to give predictions in KS2 score ranges.
Many thanks for your quick reply Guest55. When I went to see the head he said that he wondered what was expected of him in the predictions section now that the levels have been removed from SATS. He didn't mention anything about score ranges and they didn't appear on the end of year 5 report that we received - it was only the written grades 'working above..... etc'. DD attends an independent school and now I'm worrying that they don't carry out the same tests :shock:

FinalHurdle wrote:
I have just picked up my DD's head teacher report for the Bucks Selection Review and in the year 6 SATS prediction boxes he has purely put 'Working Above Age Expectations' He has not put any scores. Is this a problem?! Will be panel consider the form incomplete? I don't want to go back to him and ask him to redo it if it will be ok with just the wording but I'll have to if you think it will hinder our case.

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... aneous#e33
      Quote:
      Significantly above expectations in reading, writing and maths. Following the abolition of ‘levels’, I think headteachers may be asked to give a predicted range for reading and maths. For writing, there could be a question about ‘greater depth’.
      Whatever the constraints of the new system, it is of course possible for headteachers to comment further in their statement of support.

We suspect that "above expectations" might not be sufficient.
How far above expectations?
Does the head elaborate in his statement of support?

I can see that the new form might not be straightforward for an independent school, but perhaps you could discuss with the headteacher whether he thinks that DD is working well-above or significantly above age expectations? - and, if so, what can he do to show that in his report?

I've merged most of your posts. Please keep to one thread as it helps us to have all the information about your case in one place. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:19 pm 
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Sorry Etienne, I'll make sure I only post on this thread.

The school have given CATS scores for years 4, 5 + 6. In the body of the form, he has said 'she is expected to be above age expectations in English and Maths this year and her CATS scores support this'.

I'm worried that they don't use the numerical scoring - the downside of it being an independent school I guess.

I tried to keep our parental section purely factual and weaved in her academic results again whilst describing her (very weak!) extenuating circumstances but the Head has said in his bit that DD is very keen to join her brother who is already at Grammar school and I'm worried this might just annoy the panel as it's hardly evidence that she under performed on the day!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:53 pm 
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FinalHurdle wrote:
I'm worried that they don't use the numerical scoring - the downside of it being an independent school I guess.
This is why I think the wording of the statement of support (section 6) could be important.

Quote:
the Head has said in his bit that DD is very keen to join her brother who is already at Grammar school and I'm worried this might just annoy the panel as it's hardly evidence that she under performed on the day!
I don't believe it will annoy them. Feeling under pressure to emulate an older sibling, if that's what happened, would be very understandable, and perhaps it's something you could mention - especially when (reading between the lines) it is to some extent corroborated by the headteacher.
The thing to avoid is a list of weak uncorroborated circumstances!
Very wise of you not to exaggerate - but don't go to the other extreme and sound lukewarm!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:25 pm 
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Thanks Etienne.

I'm so worried about not telling the panel what they should think and not giving them our opinion that you might be right that I've gone too far the other way! Off to reread it and no doubt amend it AGAIN! It's going in the post tomorrow so at least I won't be able to keep revisiting it then and it's in the lap of the gods until February!! :cry:


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