grammar appeal
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I appreciate our chances are not going to be great but even if we get moved a couple of places then at least something's come out of all the time that we've put in. My daughter is going to good school at present but they lack facilities and resources that the Grammar school has. I would say educationally there's not much in it between the schools, both do equally well in the national league tables but the grammar school has varied extra-curricular activities that the current school does not have.
I think my daughter would do better in an all girls environment as studies have proved e.g distracting behaviours of boys.
The current school is costing annual fees and a longer commute so putting family a bit under strain at the moment.
I think my daughter would do better in an all girls environment as studies have proved e.g distracting behaviours of boys.
The current school is costing annual fees and a longer commute so putting family a bit under strain at the moment.
I think we may be at risk of getting confused.
There are two routes to getting a place at an oversubscribed school: one is via the waiting list handled by the admission authority (in this instance the school); the other is via appeal, which is meant to be a completely separate, independent process. An appeal panel should not know where an appellant is on the waiting list, or be influenced by it in any way.
The test for an IAP is deciding an appeal is not whether there are exceptional circumstances, or whether the appellant deserves priority over the waiting list. The test is whether the parental reasons for needing a place outweigh the prejudice to the school. As I've written in the Q&As, you could have a strong case and lose your appeal (because the school case is even stronger); you could have a weak case and win your appeal (because the school case is even weaker). It is sometimes called the "balancing stage," and that is a good description for what is meant to happen.
Of course, if a school does have a really strong case (e.g. already above PAN, cramped accommodation, poor pupil-teacher ratio, high numbers with special needs, etc.), a parental case would have to be exceptional.
But where appeals are rarely upheld, I hope it is indeed because of the strength of the school's case, and not because of a failure to carry out the balancing stage in a fair and impartial manner ......
In 2005/2006 (the last year for which figures are available), 40.5% of all local authority maintained secondary school appeals were successful, whereas the figure for foundation schools was 31.8%, and for VA schools only 26.6%. This discrepancy occurs year after year, and is worrying.
I do agree with Snakeyfly that neelwgs should be realistic about the chances of success. If on average only 26.6% of VA school appeals are upheld, then the odds are not favourable. Good luck all the same!
There are two routes to getting a place at an oversubscribed school: one is via the waiting list handled by the admission authority (in this instance the school); the other is via appeal, which is meant to be a completely separate, independent process. An appeal panel should not know where an appellant is on the waiting list, or be influenced by it in any way.
The test for an IAP is deciding an appeal is not whether there are exceptional circumstances, or whether the appellant deserves priority over the waiting list. The test is whether the parental reasons for needing a place outweigh the prejudice to the school. As I've written in the Q&As, you could have a strong case and lose your appeal (because the school case is even stronger); you could have a weak case and win your appeal (because the school case is even weaker). It is sometimes called the "balancing stage," and that is a good description for what is meant to happen.
Of course, if a school does have a really strong case (e.g. already above PAN, cramped accommodation, poor pupil-teacher ratio, high numbers with special needs, etc.), a parental case would have to be exceptional.
But where appeals are rarely upheld, I hope it is indeed because of the strength of the school's case, and not because of a failure to carry out the balancing stage in a fair and impartial manner ......
In 2005/2006 (the last year for which figures are available), 40.5% of all local authority maintained secondary school appeals were successful, whereas the figure for foundation schools was 31.8%, and for VA schools only 26.6%. This discrepancy occurs year after year, and is worrying.
I do agree with Snakeyfly that neelwgs should be realistic about the chances of success. If on average only 26.6% of VA school appeals are upheld, then the odds are not favourable. Good luck all the same!
Etienne
It is legally possible in limited circumstances.
"Once an admission number has been set by the admission authority, children should not be admitted above the published number unless exceptional circumstances apply or as part of in-year fair access protocols ...... or a closing school .........."
"Once an admission number has been set by the admission authority, children should not be admitted above the published number unless exceptional circumstances apply or as part of in-year fair access protocols ...... or a closing school .........."
Etienne
Thanks for clarifying the process. I appreciate the time you have taken to
make your points.
We received the appeal letter from the school today, and our initial thoughts are that we are really up against it. The school lists its case, e.g how full they are and how difficult it would be to accomodate another student.
We got confirmation of our daughter scores and we had hoped they would be high to give us better hope. She scored 235, the highest mark was 282, the lowest mark to obtain a place was 239, the range was 140 to 280 and she is currently ranks 3. I am really proud of what she scored and just can't believe how close she was. Do you think the scores will have a significant factor in our appeal? Does it prove she is of grammar standard?
make your points.
We received the appeal letter from the school today, and our initial thoughts are that we are really up against it. The school lists its case, e.g how full they are and how difficult it would be to accomodate another student.
We got confirmation of our daughter scores and we had hoped they would be high to give us better hope. She scored 235, the highest mark was 282, the lowest mark to obtain a place was 239, the range was 140 to 280 and she is currently ranks 3. I am really proud of what she scored and just can't believe how close she was. Do you think the scores will have a significant factor in our appeal? Does it prove she is of grammar standard?
Thanks for clarifying the process. I appreciate the time you have taken to
make your points.
We received the appeal letter from the school today, and our initial thoughts are that we are really up against it. The school lists its case, e.g how full they are and how difficult it would be to accomodate another student.
We got confirmation of our daughter scores and we had hoped they would be high to give us better hope. She scored 235, the highest mark was 282, the lowest mark to obtain a place was 239, the range was 140 to 280 and she is currently ranks 3. I am really proud of what she scored and just can't believe how close she was. Do you think the scores will have a significant factor in our appeal? Does it prove she is of grammar standard?
make your points.
We received the appeal letter from the school today, and our initial thoughts are that we are really up against it. The school lists its case, e.g how full they are and how difficult it would be to accomodate another student.
We got confirmation of our daughter scores and we had hoped they would be high to give us better hope. She scored 235, the highest mark was 282, the lowest mark to obtain a place was 239, the range was 140 to 280 and she is currently ranks 3. I am really proud of what she scored and just can't believe how close she was. Do you think the scores will have a significant factor in our appeal? Does it prove she is of grammar standard?
Dear neelwgs
I'm afraid I can only provide general advice. The school I think you are talking about doesn't appear to publish its appeal arrangements on the internet.
Do you know whether you are simply appealing for a place at an oversubscribed school, or whether you are appealing for a specialist place?
The paperwork ought to make this clear. If it doesn't, I suggest you contact whoever is organising the appeal to find out exactly what it is you are appealing for.
I'm afraid I can only provide general advice. The school I think you are talking about doesn't appear to publish its appeal arrangements on the internet.
Do you know whether you are simply appealing for a place at an oversubscribed school, or whether you are appealing for a specialist place?
The paperwork ought to make this clear. If it doesn't, I suggest you contact whoever is organising the appeal to find out exactly what it is you are appealing for.
Etienne
appeal for VA school
Re your daughter's score. Your earlier post suggested your daughter was already in year 7 when she took the entrance test. Was this the same test sat by the year 6 pupils or was it a different 12+ test? Test scores at 11+ are usually standardised to take account of age.
Some of the other Herts consortium schools (e.g. Parmiter's, Clement Danes) allow applications from outside catchment area. Your daughter could have sat the test in Nov 2006 (there is only one test for the whole consortium) if she had applied for one of these schools. You could probably then have asked for her to be placed on the waiting list for WGS as you had moved into catchment. The outcome would have been the same but she would have sat the test at the right time.
I think you will have an uphill struggle at the appeal but you have nothing to lose. 3rd place on the waiting list sounds quite good to me, particularly as her score is below what was offered and the fact that inner catchment girls may have priority. As others have mentioned people do have to move for work or other reasons so places may come free. In fact elsewhere on the forum someone mentioned 2 girls were leaving yr 7 at HBS.
Some of the other Herts consortium schools (e.g. Parmiter's, Clement Danes) allow applications from outside catchment area. Your daughter could have sat the test in Nov 2006 (there is only one test for the whole consortium) if she had applied for one of these schools. You could probably then have asked for her to be placed on the waiting list for WGS as you had moved into catchment. The outcome would have been the same but she would have sat the test at the right time.
I think you will have an uphill struggle at the appeal but you have nothing to lose. 3rd place on the waiting list sounds quite good to me, particularly as her score is below what was offered and the fact that inner catchment girls may have priority. As others have mentioned people do have to move for work or other reasons so places may come free. In fact elsewhere on the forum someone mentioned 2 girls were leaving yr 7 at HBS.
Thanks Etienne & resmum for your responses.
It look like we're appealing for an oversubscribed school. I think there are only about 45 places allocated for the (academic) specialist area. The majority of places are taken up by community places, about 117 places I believe.
The testing aspect has confused us a bit, I don't know whether she sat the same test as the girls who sat the Nov 2006 test for 2007 admissions or whether she sat the same test for the 2008 admissions. It doesn't mention any thing in the letter except her scores. Perhaps I should get clarity from the clerk prior to appeal.
How I'd wish we'd known about the Herts consortium schools though such as Parmiter's allowing students outside the catchment to sit the tests. I think it was a bit unfair the school not allowing us to sit the test in Nov 2006.
It look like we're appealing for an oversubscribed school. I think there are only about 45 places allocated for the (academic) specialist area. The majority of places are taken up by community places, about 117 places I believe.
The testing aspect has confused us a bit, I don't know whether she sat the same test as the girls who sat the Nov 2006 test for 2007 admissions or whether she sat the same test for the 2008 admissions. It doesn't mention any thing in the letter except her scores. Perhaps I should get clarity from the clerk prior to appeal.
How I'd wish we'd known about the Herts consortium schools though such as Parmiter's allowing students outside the catchment to sit the tests. I think it was a bit unfair the school not allowing us to sit the test in Nov 2006.
