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 Post subject: Appeals query
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:16 pm
Posts: 9
Thank you for all the advice already provided, really eppreciated esp from Ettiene.

Just wondering...(sorry if already been asked/answered)

Would/should/can the appeal panel know about any other schools applied for and what the scores are? Does this affect the appeal?

Also is it best to represent yourself or pay outside agency to do it?

Thanking you in advance

Desperately seeking hope


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 Post subject: Re: Appeals query
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7060
Welcome!

I would not expect a panel to know about your preferences if you are just appealing against non-qualification. I would normally expect them to know if you are appealing against oversubscription.

My advice is to DIY! - a panel is probably going to be more sympathetic if you represent yourself. For a discussion about this, have a look at the Q&As, A11 (follow link at top of page).

Regards

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
trying4mykids wrote:
Would/should/can the appeal panel know about any other schools applied for and what the scores are? Does this affect the appeal?

Also is it best to represent yourself or pay outside agency to do it?


We often ask what school your child has been offered, and what they think of the offer. We don't get told this by the School side, and neither would we know about scores other than for us. Sometimes we're told by the parents that they already have a place offered at another local grammar, but that doesn't make any difference to our decision.

I like to think I can spot a 'prepared by third party' appeal a mile off, even if you've written it out in your own handwriting. There's nothing actually wrong about them, per se, but we'll try and get all the relevant information out of you when you meet the panel anyway, so you may well be wasting your money.

Alternatively, send £5,000 in used bank notes to my PO Box address and I'll do the whole thing for you - but - err - with absolutely no guarantees whatsoever. :twisted: (PS, Etienne - I'll split it 50/50 with you - are we off on a cruise next year?)

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Capers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:33 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Langley,Berkshire.
Hi.
I recently sub-mitted a good pass mark on an 11plus exam for a well over-subscibed school(and our 1st preference) as acadmic evidence to support the appeal for failing another school's 11plus(2nd preference)
It totally back-fired for me because all the chair, of the panel, was then interested in why he had done so well on one paper and not the other and it gave them a "dilema" as HE probably didn't want the place!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:21 am
Posts: 2125
Sorry to hijack but this question raises an interesting issue. For transfer appeals we are told that we should explain why we want a particular school rather than why we don't want the school we have been allocated. If a panel then asks about other schools on this list, and why we are rejecting the allocated school, it's difficult not to be negative - e.g. facilities at preferred school for a particular subject are better than the school offered, bright children are taught with others of their own ability (assuming that is a valid point for a GS appeal?). After all, you must think your preferred school is better for your child otherwise you wouldn't have put it first and be appealing for it... :?

Good luck trying4mk and thanks for raising this!

Marylou


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8203
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Marylou

It is very important not to allow your Appeal to be hijacked by this question, should it arise. Many panels won't ask anyway, because they assume that you must be dissatisfied by the current offer because you are appealing for another school!

If asked, the first step is to state the obvious: "We are appealing because we do not feel that the school we have been allocated is going to meet our child's needs effectively."

If the panel press further, then use it as an opportunity to emphasise the postitive features of the new school that relate to your case, rather than the negatives of the school being appealed against. "The school we are appealing for has specialist science college status, and our son excels at science; it has a strong SEN team who can support him with his needs as a dyslexic; it is also our catchment school. The school that we have been allocated has none of these features."

It's the "broken record trick" - repeat the positive points about the desired school yet again, rather than slinging mud at the other one. After all, for all you know, the panel members may have had children of their own go through at the school being appealed against, and think it is wonderful!

It's tricky, and preparing how to manage the question if it should arise will be time well-spent.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:46 pm 
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I agree with Sally-Anne.

Langley/mum's situation was complicated because it was a foundation school panel, dealing with non-qualification in the first instance.

For Bucks it's less complicated, as there's a clear separation between non-qualification and oversubscription. My starting point is that you should focus on the school you're appealing for, and, in my view, so should the panel - but if they put you in a position where you are forced to discuss alternatives, it's not your fault.

It then becomes a matter of emphasis - how will what you say come across to the panel? Will you sound really positive about the school you're appealing for, or just overly critical of another school?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:21 am
Posts: 2125
Thanks for that, Sally-Anne and Etienne. I always try to focus on the positives anyway when explaining to people why I chose the school I did for my eldest instead of the local school (when asked, of course!), and it really isn't difficult as it does meet her needs so well. I think I could adopt this approach for an appeal panel should the need arise for my second child.

Best regards

Marylou


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:10 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Lincolnshire
Going to stick my neck out a little here and say that I think that it is sometimes all right to draw well-founded comparisons between schools in oversubscription appeals. It is, after all, part of the argument about the "prejudice" to your child in not getting a place. I know Bucks guarantee a Grammar School place to all of those who pass the 11 plus and live in county. This is not so in many other counties and I know that many appeals panels will take note of the characteristics of the allocated school in comparison to the Grammar school where this may be relevant. Thus it would be relevant in my county to say, for example, "X Grammar School enjoys 100% success rate in level 5 at KS3, whereas my allocated school gets only 20% of pupils to this standard. The 2007 ofsted report for my allocated school notes that the average attainment of pupils on entry is exceptionally low. It also says that whilst the pupils with special educational needs make good progress, there is insufficient differentiation to stretch the more able pupils. I am concerned that my child, who already has 3 level 5s at KS2 SATS and who attained a score at 11 plus of 270 may not be able to fulfil his potential there whereas at X Grammar School he will be stretched. He will also be able to take 2 languages/separate sciences/Latin (etc etc) which he would not be able to do at the allocated school as they only offer a, b and c" and so on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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Hi, Alex

An interesting issue. There's no risk in you sticking your neck out :D, as I'm sure what you say accurately reflects the situation in Lincs. (and probably in some other areas too). I don't really have a problem with it, although I think I might well be right from a strictly technical point of view, and I would still argue that in this situation the emphasis is important, i.e. the parent shouldn't appear to be appealing for purely negative reasons.

Technically, although we often talk about "balance of prejudice", neither the new code of practice, nor the old one, actually uses the phrase or mentions "prejudice to the child".

The wording in the new code talks of "balancing the degree of prejudice to the school against the parents’ case for their child being admitted to the preferred school".

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