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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:39 pm 
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If school says cannot fit more than 28 pupils in class not enough desks and chairs, four form entry = 112 pupils, but their own info says that in Y8 there are 118 pupils ( eg 2 groups 29, 2 groups 30) does this not contradict their argument, i.e. they must have enough desks and chairs for them all?

What do you think?
bouga


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:59 pm 
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Dear bouga

It's not the number of desks that determines the number of pupils, but the net capacity assessment. There has to be an entitlement to a certain amount of free space in a room (not least for the teacher to be able to move round, and for any equipment in use).

Based on the size and type of room, the net capacity shows how many pupils can reasonably be accommodated.

I assume the figures you mention are the result of successful appeals. In this situation, the school has no choice but to cope as best it can and to squeeze in some extra desks.

If you'd like to get into the finer points of net capacity, you can find out all about it here - but it's not exactly light reading. :D
www.dfes.gov.uk/netcapacity/

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 Post subject: net capacity
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:15 pm 
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Hi Etienne, once again, thanks for your advice.
Despite the net capacity agreement which I guess I cannot argue about, I wondered about this separate point made by the school:
"Most of our large teaching rooms are below the correct size for a full class and can take a maximum of 28 pupils."
They clearly do have rooms which accommodate more, even if they have been forced, as this year's Year 7 consists of four classes which all contain more than 28 pupils.

Is there any point in arguing this, or should we just go down the route of acknowledging their concerns, but not admitting our DD would prejudice her more than admitting her would prejudice the school.

Thanks
Bouga


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:38 pm 
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Location: Bexley
Bougalou,

If the school already accommodates 29 kids in a class then you can use this info at an appeal, ie, they already do it, and are coping, so why can't they do it for your child?

Most schools will use double desks BUT you can always fit in a single desk at the back of a classroom as once the child is seated, the aisle is not required. That is how you get the 29 desk in. The school will argue against this on H & S grounds but this is how you squeeze the extra one in.

Also in lessons where computers are used, the school will say they only have 28 per classroom so one child will not have a computer and be disadvantage or 2 kids will have to share. Laptops can be used in the situation where there is one desk too many.

Another consideration which the school will throw up is the H & S implications when moving around the corridors to lessons etc. My answer to this would be if an school had 1000 kids how could 1001 make that much difference?

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Etienne,

Followed your link to the web site and have been looking at how the net capacity figure is worked out for Holy Grail School.
It seems to me this figure is calculated on the school's planned admission number, although you can see clearly by looking at the form that the maximum working spaces is a higher figure. Doesn't this support the argument that there should be a certain amount (albeit small) of leeway?

Bouga :cry:


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 Post subject: Thanks Tracey
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:45 pm 
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Hey thanks, Tracey, - I already know that the large computer room holds 30 pupils and that many other classrooms do also, as I used to teach there myself, - bit of a delicate situation.
Thanks for your input
Bouga :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Quote:
"Most of our large teaching rooms are below the correct size for a full class and can take a maximum of 28 pupils."


It depends whether they are basing this on current building regulations (it would be interesting to know how many schools in the country meet these!) or on the net capacity assessment. If the latter, it's a fair point.

Quote:
Is there any point in arguing this, or should we just go down the route of acknowledging their concerns

Most authorities are going to have enough of a case to win stage 1. In my view the best tactic is to come across as a very reasonable parent, not to be too argumentative, but just ask probing questions:
"Were all the extra children in the current year 7 admitted as a result of successful appeals?"
"Are you basing the 'correct room size' on current building regulations or the net capacity assessment?"
"What problems have you had with classes over 28?"

If the panel accepts the school has a case, then I agree it's best to acknowledge the school's concerns, and to focus on your case.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:08 pm 
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Quote:
It seems to me this figure is calculated on the school's planned admission number, although you can see clearly by looking at the form that the maximum working spaces is a higher figure. Doesn't this support the argument that there should be a certain amount (albeit small) of leeway?

There's a maximum number of workplaces, a minimum number of workplaces, and the net capacity.

The school could equally well argue in favour of the minimum number. :D

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