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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 58
Hi,
I wonder if anyone knows what exactly the appeal panel is getting at by asking following questions:
Was your child tutored?
How did she seem on the day of the exam(before/after)?
Did she finish the test?
What books is she reading?
How will she cope with fast paced GS? (I know the answer to this one)
What will happen if the appeal is unsuccessful?
Just trying to prepare for my appeal.
thanks all


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8199
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Greatmum

It's all fairly straightforward - some of them are filler questions:

Was your child tutored?
Did she fail despite months of preparation?

How did she seem on the day of the exam(before/after)?
Was there any illness or other cause for concern that could have affected the result?

Did she finish the test?
Did she just get a few questions wrong, or was it that she didn't even get to the end of the paper? Implications about the speed at which she works.

What books is she reading?
Is she reading age-appropriate material or anything well above her age level?

How will she cope with fast paced GS? (I know the answer to this one)
Can she keep up - as for finishing the test?

What will happen if the appeal is unsuccessful?
Consequences for the child of turning the Appeal down, wanting to know what alternative offer there is.

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:03 pm 
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thanks Sally-Anne,
My daughter left 3 questions in her NVR test and finished both VR and Maths. She was home tutored. These 3 NVR questions were completely new to her so she left them to try at the end of the test. She didn't have much time left to try and attempt them. do you think i should mention it at appeal?
thanks again


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:19 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Greatmum

It's hard to say without knowing the full context of your case.

However, I think that if the 3 questions were the ones that made the difference between a pass and a fail across all 3 papers, then I think it is a reasonable explanation.

The tutoring issue can be very difficult at Appeals, although it depends on which area you are in and what the Admission Authority's policy is on tutoring. I'm afraid that you get no more brownie points for having home-tutored than if you had paid for a tutor. I would avoid mentioning it at all if you can. If the question is asked then you might say that you "obviously did some familiaristion with her" before the tests.

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:24 pm
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thanks again Sally-Anne,
My daughter didn't fail, she is on the waiting list with 116 at LG. her teacher suggested that I should mention it at the appeal that she was not tutored by a tutor. Now I am confused :?
I am in hounslow but I heard that for LG it doesn't matter that much.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Greatmum

I don't know what LG's policy on tutoring is, but in most areas panels will not be influenced by arguments about whether a child was tutored or not. They will certainly not make a distinction between home tutoring and professional tutoring. You might after all be a teacher or an 11+ tutor yourself!

The risk if you introduce the subject is that the panel will conclude that the 116 mark was only achieved with significant support, and therefore she will not cope at a GS.

We do occasionally see comments posted here, made to parents by teachers (or even Heads) who simply don't understand how an Appeal panel works. Your daughter's teacher may not be one of those, but unless she has direct and relevant experience of appeals for LG, I would recommend a cautious approach.

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:24 pm
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Hi Sally-anne,
Thanks for expert advice on tutoring. If the panel can't be influenced by whether the child has been tutored or not, then why do they ask this question? Speaking to mothers whose children have been tutored,I found that tutors teach the technique of handling questions. this can't be taught as well as them by inexperienced parents. Also some times its not financially possible for parents to get a tutor but child can be quite capable. Take example of Langleymum, just like myself she tutored her son at home and with 117 he got a place after three rounds. I could be wrong but I believe that he could have been in first list if he was tutored by a professional. after all we can't replace years experience of tutors.
greatmum


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Greatmum

Some areas now instruct their panels not to ask about tutoring.

For example, in Bucks the Admissions team claim that tutoring makes no difference (the test is entirely VR) and that their familiarisation process is all that is required. They therefore realised that it flew in the face of that point of view to have panels asking about tutoring! So panels no longer ask that question (or shouldn't).

If a panel asks, it is most likely to be to check if the child had significant support, as I said before. It may also be a filler question, or it might be that they want to know if she was achieving good marks in tutoring sessions that weren't reflected in the 11+ score. It is a real minefield though, whatever the purpose of the question.

One thing you must not do at a hearing is to rail against the unfairness of the system in any way, including the different levels of tutoring. Panels don't like that approach one bit! :D

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:47 pm 
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We were asked if our daughter had had tutoring at our Bucks appeal this year. I answered it by saying that we had done some papers at home. The panel then went on to ask if there were any types of questions that she found difficult and if the practice papers had made us think that she had a problem with anything. We answered this by saying she had done well at home and there wern't any specific problems with questions on the papers. They also asked us how well she had done in the familiarisation papers at school. I stressed about this after the appeal and still am not sure how we should have answered this but the appeal was successful so we obviously did not make a complete mess of it!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:24 pm
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Hope,
Was your appeal for non qualification or oversubscription?
I know two mothers who appeal for non qualification (both children home tutored) they both succeeded and one mother (tutored by a professional tutored) unsuccessful for non qualification appeal at Slough/herschel.
Am I reading too much into it by thinking that it did make a difference at appeal whether the child was tutored or not?

Sally-anne thanks for being patient with me as I am driving myself mad with thoughts.


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