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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Hi, I'm after some advice on my childs appeal. Unfortunately she failed her 11+ scoring 110 in the Maths test, the NVR and VR results were very good 140/137. I returned the appeal form stating a more detailed letter would follow, detailing her headteachers support, and that the appeal would be on the basis of her previous academic ability. I have just received our schools letter of support and Daughters results and predicted year end results.

CATS results Jan/08 Verbal 118 Nonverbal 121 Quantitative 121

Maths level by standardised Sats paper L4a - March /08
Predicted target July /08 L5c
Progress made: Maths Sept/07 L4b - March/08 L4a

Science level by standardised Sats paper L5c- March /08
Predicted target July /08 L5b

I am obviously worried that her Maths is only L4, I was hoping to show the result in the 11+ was a blip, or an off day. I am also unsure about the level of the CATS results.

1. Do you think there are grounds for appeal with these results?

2. I have NVR result from an Academy that we applied for ability bands 1-5 with 5 the highest Daughter was band 4, should I include this in the appeal?

3. Would it be worth mentioning at the appeal that her school has received an Ofsted notice to improve, and in October the Head left suddenly. Since then the school has had two more headteachers.Could this disruption be used at appeal?

4. Are the VR and NVR CATS results good enough? I do not know what to measure them against.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated
Regards


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:26 am 
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Quote:
1. Do you think there are grounds for appeal with these results?

I don't know about your particular area, but, generally speaking, I would say they're borderline.
Quote:
2. I have NVR result from an Academy that we applied for ability bands 1-5 with 5 the highest Daughter was band 4, should I include this in the appeal?

I would suggest not.

Quote:
3. Would it be worth mentioning at the appeal that her school has received an Ofsted notice to improve, and in October the Head left suddenly. Since then the school has had two more headteachers.Could this disruption be used at appeal?

Again, I cannot speak for your area, but this sort sort of disruption would usually be considered an extenuating circumstance.

Quote:
4. Are the VR and NVR CATS results good enough? I do not know what to measure them against.

I think they're borderline. The 90th percentile is often regarded as the very minimum for grammar school entry. See article on CATs below - percentiles are shown at the very end..


The Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT)
The third edition (CAT3) was published in June 2001. The complete series of tests, from levels A to H, cover the age range 7 years 6 months to 17 years. Level D is the level taken by most Y7 students. Levels G & H which take the test to Y11-Y13 were published in September 2003. Roughly 70% of all secondary schools use CAT to assess their pupils on entry to Y7, and approximately 25% also test in Y9. Many primary schools also use CAT, predominantly in Y4. Approximately one-third of LEAs use CAT strategically across all their schools. Three-quarters of customers, and nearly all secondary schools, use the computer-scoring service provided by nferNelson.

What does CAT measure?

CAT is actually nine tests grouped into three batteries which assess a pupil's ability to reason with and manipulate the three different types of symbols that play a substantial role in human thinking:

* verbal - thinking with words
* quantitative - thinking with numbers
* non-verbal - thinking with shape and space.

CAT scores indicate general transferable abilities, such as the ability to recognise similarities, analogies, patterns and relationships, all fundamental to understanding and assimilating new information. They are designed specifically to minimise the role of prior learning and can therefore provide an indication of potential. They differ from the national tests (or SATs) which indicate attainment in some core areas of the curriculum and reflect how well pupils have acquired and retained specific knowledge in these areas.

Uses of CAT scores

The CAT tests are used for monitoring trends in the abilities of the intake, identifying individual pupil�s cognitive strengths and weaknesses, identifying SEN, the more able/gifted and underachieving pupils or groups, informing target setting and assessing value added. These uses are described further below.

How are scores reported?

For easy comparison, pupils� raw scores are converted to standard age scores (SAS), stanines and percentiles. Figure 1 shows the link between these different scores.

* Standard ages scores (SAS) have a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15, which shows how widely spread the data are around the mean of 100. Around two-thirds of pupils in the national age group will score between 85 and 115 (up to one standard deviation away from the mean on each side), 95% score between 70 and 130 (up to two standard deviations from the mean) and 99% score between 60 and 140. The upper and lower quartiles of the distribution are an SAS of 90 or below (bottom 26%) and 111 or above (top 26%) respectively.
* Stanines, short for "standard nines", are nine summary score bands ranging from 1 (lowest) to 9 (highest). The table below shows the percentage of pupils expected in each stanine if the school has a national average intake.
* National percentile rank (NPR) shows the percentage of pupils nationally who obtain a SAS at or below a particular score. An NPR of 50 represents the 50th percentile, which is the median for the age group.


Description /Stanine /Percentage of pupils / Corresponding percentile (NPR) / Corresponding standard age score (SAS)

Code:
Description  St   % pupils   percentile     score
Very high    9      4            97+         127+
Above av.    8      7           90-96      119-126
Above av.    7     12           78-89      112-118
Average      6     17           59-77      104-111
Average      5     20           41-58       97-103
Average      4     17           23-40       89-96
Below av.    3     12           12-22       82-88
Below av.    2      7            5-11       74-81
Very low     1      4             4-         73- 

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Etienne


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 Post subject: CAT
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Does the Stanine relate to the National Curriculum levels?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Kath

No, it is a scale measurement - a riveting read can be had on the subject here :D :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanine

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Location: Bexley
'Only' a 4a is still very good, especially with those near perfect VR and NVR scores. Is your child old or young for the year?
Good luck with your appeal. I think a lot will depend on which school you are appealing for. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 269
Location: somewhere in kent
Dartford Dad,

all the best with your appeal.


Dejavu, perhaps you could make your posts a little less critical of others,
and just put your own advice.

However I do concur that Etienne gives superb advice, and it was that advice that saw both of my children get into good G/S in Kent.

I dont need to post any more, I dont need any help, I was trying to help Dartford Dad.

Cindy


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:44 pm 
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Location: bucks
Hi DartfordDad

I am not in your area - we are in Bucks. But I know that if we had had "extenuating circumstances" that we would more likely to have won our appeal - it even got so far as for the panel to have asked "was your daughter premature?" (late August birth).

So, I'm sorry Cindy, I beg to disagree with you. If you are borderline, then you have to use everything you can! And if you have extenuating circumstances - USE IT! And the fact that Etienne has told you that "this sort of disruption would usually be considered as extenuating circumstances" should be a big hint. Etienne is very objective and has excellent judgement, so I would take her advice every time.

But in Bucks, we took our 11+ in October - so if we had a change of head then (when you said your daughter's head changed), it would not have affected our daughter's performance, but I don't know when your daughter took hers. Although you said that the school had a notice to improve - which would help with extenuating circumstances.

Also, there might be other childrten appealing from the same school, and they could use thhe same argument of extenuating circumstances (how did it affect your daughter do you think?). So you might still be on a level playing field. But you never know, it might just be the one thing to tip the balance.
Good Luck

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many thanks
dejavu


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Location: somewhere in kent
Post removed.


Cindy


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:01 pm
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Location: bucks
Dear |Dartfordad

I too wish you well in your appeal.

I am sorry if Cindy thought that I was making my posts critical of others. I did not mean to, and who were they anyway? I also do not need to post and just thought that I was helping Dartfordad. If there is a chance of extenuating circumstances then I strongly urge you to take it - it might just sway the panel!

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many thanks
dejavu


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:06 pm
Posts: 13
Thank you for all your help and advice, it has certainly been very helpful. Our appeal is on 2nd May and my wife and I are getting very nervous about appearing in front of the panel and stating our Daughters case.

Thanks to the advice from Etienne we included in our appeal letter the fact that her primary school had a notice to improve, and quoted parts stating,
'The schools overall effectiveness is inadequate. The school was given a Notice to improve following its last inspection because of significant weaknesses in standards, achievement and the schools leadership and management.' and
'The quality of teaching, although satisfactory, is not high enough to accelerate pupils’ learning in order to ensure consistently good progress. This is particularly the case for the average and higher attaining pupils who are not always given sufficiently challenging work. They make steady rather than good progress because the targets that are set for them are comfortable rather than aspirational .'

She sat 11+ in early January, so 3 heads in 4 months, not sure if this affected her personally but it certainly didn't help.

Daughter is young for year, mid August, but although I have seen this point crop up before, I fail to see how this could be used at appeal. If it would have any relevance I would appreciate being told how to use it.

The Grammar School is very local to us, and she would be able to walk. I’ve read on this site that the panel may ask this, if they do not is it worth mentioning?

Thanks again and will post outcome on here when we know. Fingers crossed


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