Appeals evidence from school

[Etienne]

Is performance recorded on a term by term basis by the school?

I don't know for sure, but I would have thought this would be necessary nowadays to monitor progress.

In my letter requesting grades, should I also ask for confirmation of a noticeable dip in school work/performance in the period leading upto the 11+?

If you are giving formal notice under the Data Protection Act, you must restrict yourself to the sort of factual information recorded by the school. I don't think you can ask for "confirmation of a noticeable dip in performance" because you would then be asking for a subjective judgement about the data. What you could do, however, is ask for full details of all your daughter's test results since a particular date.

I'm afraid there's no easy answer to the question "How does one deal with an unco-operative head?" - especially if there's a younger sibling at the school. The head may not take kindly to a formal request under the Data Protection Act, although I don't believe most heads would then go on to act unprofessionally.

The best approach is probably to keep plugging away as courteously as possible for as long as possible. Bear in mind, though, that time is running out.

Rather than sending a formal request under the DPA by recorded delivery, you could try first of all writing a polite letter, saying "I understand that, under the Data Protection Act, I am legally entitled to request this information in writing." This has the advantage that, in the same letter, you can raise any other matters which would not be suitable for inclusion in a formal DPA request.

[lgasks]

Thanks for this Etienne.

I have been following the 'No response from school regarding appeal' thread by Watdad. I have also received details for the hearing and now I am more puzzled. I seem to be in the same boat as Watdad. They have sent me copies of all the documentation I sent with my appeal form - my case. What the LA are presenting to me is a 'Statement' which I presume is their case. Now this statement is just a reiteration of the selection process ie those with highest scores selected; details of who devised the actual tests; that the scores have been standardised; how they assess innate ability and are not linked to the National Curriculum. They also state how many places they have allocated.

There is nothing about what they are going to say against my case. There is a copy of a form I signed regarding accepting the comp. school that they had offered. (This form stated that I had to accept the offer as otherwise I would have to prove which alternative school she was going to). I previously called the LA and asked if I had to accept the offer even though I was appealing for another school and they said I had to accept the place if I had no alternative. I am wondering why this particular form is relevant to the appeal. Would it be relevant to the appeal?

Also, in the tests results letter it states '.... based on many previous years' experience, appeals are considered first and foremost on a child's ability as assessed in the selective tests and if your child has a lower score it would be very unlikely that an appeal for GS would be successful unless there were very exceptional circumstances'.

There is nothing in the LA's statement to say that the school is full and no mention of prejudice. Yet when I called the LA, I was told that the appeal "was more like an oversubscription appeal". So am I missing something here as it looks like this is a purely, non-qualification appeal? And also their case doesn't seem substantial enough. HELP!!

[Etienne]

There is nothing about what they are going to say against my case.

They only state their own case - they don't "attack" yours. However, when you present your case at the hearing, the LA presenting officer can ask you questions, and this is an opportunity to point out any weaknesses.

There is nothing in the LA's statement to say that the school is full and no mention of prejudice. Yet when I called the LA, I was told that the appeal "was more like an oversubscription appeal". So am I missing something here as it looks like this is a purely, non-qualification appeal? And also their case doesn't seem substantial enough.

It does sound like non-qualification only. Could it be that the grammar school has vacancies? Can only suggest that you go back to whoever is organising the appeals to ask.

I previously called the LA and asked if I had to accept the offer even though I was appealing for another school and they said I had to accept the place if I had no alternative. I am wondering why this particular form is relevant to the appeal.

It shouldn't be. It's not unusual for all previous correspondence to do with transfer to secondary education to be included. If it worries you, you can point out to the panel that you were obliged to complete the form - it does not imply that you are satisfied with the school allocated.

[lgasks]

There is nothing in the LA's statement to say that the school is full and no mention of prejudice. Yet when I called the LA, I was told that the appeal "was more like an oversubscription appeal". So am I missing something here as it looks like this is a purely, non-qualification appeal? And also their case doesn't seem substantial enough.

It does sound like non-qualification only. Could it be that the grammar school has vacancies? Can only suggest that you go back to whoever is organising the appeals to ask.

There is nothing to suggest that there are vacancies. In fact, their statement mentions that 'all places have been allocated and accepted.....if further withdrawals arise the place will be offered to the highest qualifier...' Is here anything to say that LAs cannot use oversubscription criteria for a non-qualification appeal? As the LA previously stated that it was a statutory appeal and not specifically an oversubscription or non-qualification, what is there to stop them using factors that would be relevant in an oversubscription appeal? I recall Bo Peep's case and the LA using matters that would be used in an oversubscription appeal?

'Eventually the letter came.......in it we were horrified......it was like a letter from another appeal entirely!...........They then said that we had not given them any reason to believe that our son would not do well in a comprehensive school....well we were not there to argue against any other school - in fact I had taken advice from Etienne about what to say if they asked us about offered schools. We were there to argue our case for the grammar not against any other school...not only that but one of the panel members is a govenor for the school we were offered but did not want......'

[Etienne]

As the LA previously stated that it was a statutory appeal and not specifically an oversubscription or non-qualification, what is there to stop them using factors that would be relevant in an oversubscription appeal? I recall Bo Peep's case and the LA using matters that would be used in an oversubscription appeal?

Technically it is correct that the statutory appeal is an appeal against refusal to admit to a school. However, you need to know what issues are to be considered by the panel (natural justice?), and the authority's case should make those issues clear.

If the authority does not present an oversubscription case, setting out what the prejudice would be, then I fail to see how an appeal can be refused on grounds of oversubscription and prejudice.

In Bo Peep's case, she could have complained to the ombudsman if the oversubscription issue was not handled properly, but it wouldn't really have achieved anything unless she had first won the argument about non-qualification.

[lgasks]

In Bo Peep's case, she could have complained to the ombudsman if the oversubscription issue was not handled properly, but it wouldn't really have achieved anything unless she had first won the argument about non-qualification.

How does the appellant know at or after the appeal whether you have won the argument about qualification and that the appeal is going to oversubscription? Additionally, if your child hasn't achieved a high enough score and the school is supposedly full does the appeal not automatically become or the appeal panel automatically assume the appeal to be a 2 stage one; non-qualification and oversubscription?

BTW My DD had the assessment with the EP today and even though my DD wasn't too happy doing it the EP told me that she scored in the 95th percentile and the standardised scores were 18 point higher than how she scored in the selection tests! (I'm assuming this is good ). A report will follow which will be one A4 side in length as it was not the full blown assessment. She said this would include positive comments on the way my DD worked. I hope this will be satisfactory?

I know we have discussed this to death but I also told the EP about the school not being specific about stating level 5b's in writing. Her views were that I shouldn't press for them as they were not saying 5a's and that stating level 5's could mean anything. Etienne, I know what your views are on this but what do you think bearing in mind the result of the EP assessment?

[capers123]

In Bo Peep's case, she could have complained to the ombudsman if the oversubscription issue was not handled properly, but it wouldn't really have achieved anything unless she had first won the argument about non-qualification.

How does the appellant know at or after the appeal whether you have won the argument about qualification and that the appeal is going to oversubscription? Additionally, if your child hasn't achieved a high enough score and the school is supposedly full does the appeal not automatically become or the appeal panel automatically assume the appeal to be a 2 stage one; non-qualification and oversubscription?

There is a difference between 'being handled properly' and 'winning the arguement'.

You'd be able to tell if the case wasn't being handled properly during the appeal. You won't however find out if you've won that argument as you can't 'part-win' an appeal. It's perfectly possible to win that arguement but then for the panel to decide that the school is just too packed, yet from your point of view all you will know is that the appeal has failed.

The best way to win the appeal is to go in there with stonkingly good evidence:

the EP told me that she scored in the 95th percentile and the standardised scores were 18 point higher than how she scored in the selection tests! (I'm assuming this is good ). A report will follow which will be one A4 side in length as it was not the full blown assessment.

will certainly help. And the short format report will not blow the panels minds.

[Etienne]

Additionally, if your child hasn't achieved a high enough score and the school is supposedly full does the appeal not automatically become or the appeal panel automatically assume the appeal to be a 2 stage one; non-qualification and oversubscription?

[The "two stage" process usually refers to the two stages of an oversubscription appeal, so best not to confuse matters by using it for anything else.]

It depends how the appeals are organised. The arrangements ought to be clear - not based on assumptions!

Your LA does not appear to be doing a good job of explaining the process to you! See Q&As E27 for two different ways of organising appeals, clearly explained.

the EP told me that she scored in the 95th percentile

The 95th percentile is excellent - just what is needed.

Her views were that I shouldn't press for them as they were not saying 5a's and that stating level 5's could mean anything.

In my view it's the fact that a level 5 "could mean anything" that is the problem! The EP seems to think a panel will interpret this quite favourably, but all the panels I sat on would have interpreted it as meeting the minimum requirement of a 5c.

After all, if the school was expecting better than a 5c, why wouldn't they say "5a" or "5b" or "a good level 5" or "a sound level 5"?

If I were told that your daughter has already been achieving 5b, I would consider her to be on target for 5a-5b in the real test!

Whether it is worth hassling an unco-operative headteacher about this is another matter - but I thought you needed to try and get all your daughter's results anyway, to prove your point about the dip in her performance.

[lgasks]

The best approach is probably to keep plugging away as courteously as possible for as long as possible. Bear in mind, though, that time is running out.

Rather than sending a formal request under the DPA by recorded delivery, you could try first of all writing a polite letter, saying "I understand that, under the Data Protection Act, I am legally entitled to request this information in writing." This has the advantage that, in the same letter, you can raise any other matters which would not be suitable for inclusion in a formal DPA request.

I think I am going to try one last time with the "polite" approach. Would it be ok if I mentioned the new code so that the HT knows where I'm coming from and why I keep going on about it? I also wanted to mention to her that the LA said that there would be no reason why headteachers could not give letters of support and that the LA suggested I contact the Head? I will also ask if she can provide me with written confirmation of the dip in performance. I cannot see what else I can do with this....I'm soooo exhausted by the whole thing and I have 11 days until the hearing. I feel at this stage I have done all I can.

[Etienne]

Yes, it's worth raising these points.

Say how grateful you would be for a prompt reply as you have only x number of days left to gather evidence for your appeal.