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 Post subject: Should we appeal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:20 pm
Posts: 22
Hi All,

Our child got 117 / 116 in the 11+ this year.

We spoke to the head but because the average CAT tests were less that 121 she has only got a 3 ( Recomended with reservations ) although she has a 1 for attitude.

She has predicted level 5 in all KS2 subjects.

But we are struggling to come up with any hard 'evidence' as to why she didnt do better. The only thing we can think of is that her VR scores have always improved year on year and in her final VR CAT test she did score 121.

But reading this site I dont think that is enough.

Any thoughts? I guess there must be other parents in a similar situation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:21 pm
Posts: 130
Location: bucks
Hi totpotpink
I was interested to read a post from someone with similar fears to my own - 116/116, predicted Level 5's although a 2/2 from HM but little else to prove her academic ability. Past Tests were 120 and 121. You are right, it certainly does not appear to be enough when reading through other posts. I too am planning to appeal but am slightly at a loss. I'm glad that there is someone else out there keeping me company! I think my DD deserves a chance though, so my mission starts now. I would be really interested to follow your case so please keep us informed.
Regards
Mummog


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 Post subject: Re: Should we appeal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi totpotpink

With predicted Level 5s and a "1" recommendation, I think you should give it a go. (Edited because I misread your post - I had the recommendations the wrong way round!)

totpotpink wrote:
because the average CAT tests were less that 121 she has only got a 3 ( Recomended with reservations ) although she has a 1 for attitude.


I think the "3" recommendation is highly dubious.

Heads are specifically warned not to base their recommendations on CATs (or other test scores), because they are not directly comparable. You can read the advice for yourself in the Head's manual - the first download on this page. The information about recommendations is on pp. 17 - 21:

https://schoolsweb.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/leadership_and_management/admissions/manuals.asp

I think that you can make that point politely at the hearing: "The Head based her recommendation on previous CATs results for VR, but we have been led to believe that the official advice is not to do that? ... (Wait for Chairman to agree) ..." It is likely to make the panel look more closely at the overall accuracy of the Head's recommendations.

You will receive a copy of the recommendations sheet with your appeal confirmation letter, so if you would like to post back then, we can advise you on how accurate the Head really was.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:25 am
Posts: 8
Dear Mummog,
I too have feel feeling a bit uncertain today about appealing so it was interesting to read your post.
My DD got 114/120; the school were so positive about going for an appeal that I felt totally uplifted but now I'm not so sure. The headteacher has given her a 2:2 and predicted SATS results of 2 level 5's and a level 4:- I can't help feeling that this isn't enough. Plus I was going to cite nerves as an extenuating circumstance but the school has advised against this as it may suggest she is not suited to an academic environment.
It's just so frustrating isn't it. I have no doubt that I will appeal, but I can't help worrying that the panel will consider her too borderline for GS...?

Lily-Jane
P.S. is anyone planning to include a letter from their DC's 11+ tutor in their appeal?
Question moved to new thread:

viewtopic.php?p=87650#87650


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:20 pm
Posts: 22
Our headteacher appears to have based our daughter's level 3 recommendation solely on previous CAT test results. As I understand it, private schools and some state schools do not use these tests so what guidelines do those heads use instead to arrive at a recommendation level? It's frustrating because it fails to include the fact that she is of above average ability in maths and science. :( :(

P.S. Does it help to get the appeal documentation in as early as possible before the deadline?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi totpotpink

Heads should use a variety of tools to create the recommendations - setting for English and Maths, the class teacher's views, current marks, predicted SATs, etc. They should be looking at the whole child, and not just a single factor such as a CATs score.

The only advantage in sending the paperwork in quickly is that you will be given an earlier appeal date. Bear in mind though that if you have a very early date (appeals start w/c January 5th), it may be before your child returns to school, so you will need to take their schoolbooks home at the end of this term.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:35 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
totpotpink wrote:
P.S. Does it help to get the appeal documentation in as early as possible before the deadline?


It doesn't prejudice your case is it comes in on the deadline, but try and get it in earlier so you're not in a last minute panic.

_________________
Capers


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 Post subject: should we appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1268
Sally-Anne,
We’re in a very similar position to the OP here in terms of both scores and the HT’s recommendation, ie a ‘1’ for attitude and application, but only a ‘3’ for aptitude.

At a meeting with the HT yesterday we queried this and were told it was entirely down to ‘inconsistencies in her CATs scores’.

Am I to understand from your earlier replies that isn’t an entirely satisfactory response?

Etienne has been kindly replying to my questions on another thread about possible extenuating circumstances, but I’d be most grateful if you could just clarify this particular point. Many thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: should we appeal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Rob

Rob Clark wrote:
Am I to understand from your earlier replies that isn’t an entirely satisfactory response?


Absolutely! This is a point that you should make at the hearing - that the Head gave her a "3" recommendation solely because of her variable CATs scores. As part of your case is that her CATs are variable because of her diabetes, it ties in well with that.

The panel will know that CATs are not the only indicator that should be used when preparing the recommendations.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:20 pm
Posts: 22
One of the other areas of appeal we are thinking about is her reading.

Until recently she wasnt a very avid reader. She would read but not so much outside school. In the last year this has changed and she is now much keener. This may well have influenced her VR scores which have increased year on year.

But would this be a good arguement for an appeal? Along the lines of because she's not been a great reader her vocabulary knowledge is less extensive and she struggled on some of the vocab based questions. From what she said after the tests this does appear to be what happened.

Bst Rgds

TotPotPink


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