school did not rate my child as suitable for grammar

[capers123]

The Year 5 scores seem low to me - a 4a , 4b, 4c ... your daughter sounds 'average' rather than 'Grammar School' to me.

Don't forget that 4b is the expected average in Year 6, so all those scores are above average for Y5. Then again I know of many children in DD's class who got 5's in Y5.

I would expect a child to get all grade 3's at KS1, and all grade 5's in year 6. Very occasionally I've known children with say two 5's and a 4a win an appeal, but normally with very good other circumstances.

[Bexley Mum 2]

Can I just add that I think SATs results should be used as one of several indicators of GS ability rather than anything definite. Tests in Yr 5 will probably not be carried out in very rigorous conditions and lots of factors can come into play. At the end of Y5 my eldest son wasn't level 5 in anything (off the top of my head, something like 4a in maths, 4b in reading and 4c in writing). He sat the 11+ when he was still under the weather from a bout of illness and passed by almost 40 marks. Interestingly, his English teacher in Y7 said he was a gifted writer (despite being "only" 4c in year 5).

My second son, at the end of Y5, was a level 5 in everything, but passed the 11+ by something like 8 marks.

So please don't assume SATs results give you the whole picture.

[Guest55]

Some very good points above - that's what I meant by relying on a one-off test as indicative of ability.

Capers - level 3s at KS1 are less common now they are totally teacher assessed - a child needs to be regarded as a 'secure' level 3.

[Tracy]

A key point is that these sats grades are not standardised.

Eg, two children at the end of year 5 both gaining a clutch 4a s.

Both are clearly working above average but as one is born in Sep and one is born almost a year later in Aug, the Aug baby is doing considerably better.

[sycamore]

A key point is that these sats grades are not standardised.

Eg, two children at the end of year 5 both gaining a clutch 4a s.

Both are clearly working above average but as one is born in Sep and one is born almost a year later in Aug, the Aug baby is doing considerably better.

Since the trend (in my experience) of summer born children starting school later has declined it is not necessarily fair to make this point.
SATS assess children according to the curriculum they have been taught. As an August born child will have been experienced the same education as a child born in September, the effects of their chronological age are not as strong.
Verbal Reasoning tests are much more vocabulary based and results can be greatly enhanced by exposing children to both written and spoken language, part of 'life experience'. This is why it is important to age standardise 11+ test results.
Although maturity has an effect on aptitude tests, chronological age does not always go hand in hand with maturity!

[Tracy]

Sycamore, I couldn't disagree more strongly!

The two children in the example I gave are nearly a year apart and if the younger had been born a few days later would be in the year below. Likewise the Sep baby if born a tad earlier would be in the year above. How can that not have an impact?

Regardless of what they have been taught, if a child is not mature enough to sit a test then you cannot get an accurate reading.

A year ago my summer born daughter (then yr 4) only wanted to play with dolls and that is exactly how it should be. Her teachers were banging on about meeting this target and that target. She was constently being compared to the Sep born kids in her class.

I argued many times that she was not low achiever but simply immature and her time for learning would come.

Roll on a year and she has shot to the top group in the yr 5 class and is one of the few doing year 6 work!

These early sats grades are not to be relied upon.

[sycamore]

Sycamore, I couldn't disagree more strongly!

We'll have to agree to disagree then to allow this to return to it's correct On Topic state!
Would also like to add, though, that SATs are just as much an assessment of teaching as learning. I'm sure the panel will bear this in mind when considering the evidence the OP has submitted.

[mitasol]

Sats are available as age standardised scores. You will either need to ask the school for these or if you know the raw score you can obtain them from the QCA or NAA website.

http://www.naa.org.uk/naa_18996.aspx

[Tracy]

Thanks for this, mitasol, this proves the point that children do not necessarily need to be working at level 5 in all areas to be considered for grammar school.

[worriedmum1]

Hi worried mum again. Had a meeting with the school yesterday (prior to appeal) and deputy h/t said that several children with predicted level 4's had got through appeal before, and others with level 5's haven't. I now have a new problem - school has said they do not provide letters, comments or in fact anything to support appeal other than the standard h/t summary. Which as readers of this thread know is a real problem for me. My daughter is doing really well in her Maths - considerably better than she was before - and is now likely to achieve at least a 5c (instead of the 4A prediction) but school will not verify this. Spoke to county and they say some schools help the appeal parents a lot and some don't - usually the bigger schools - because it creates an extra administrative burden as they have to be seen to be 'fair to everyone.' This seems very unfair to me.