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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:25 am
Posts: 8
Hi Etienne or Sally-Anne,
I am struggling to find a positive angle on the HT recommendation statistics. My DD scored 120 and was given a 2:2. The results are as follows:
1:1 4(4)
2:1 3 (2)
3:1 0 (0)
1:2 2 (1)
2:2 14 (8)
3:2 4 (0)
1:3 0 (0)
2:3 0 (0)
3:3 7 (1)
4:4 3 (0)

My DD is obviously one of the 6 2:2's who failed.
FYI: There were only 15 girls as opposed to 22 boys who took the test. Of the 15 girls, 9 passed and 6 failed. One other girl and one boy also got 120.
Is it usual for there to be so many children recommended as 2:2? Was the HT hedging his bets do you think? He was spot on with the 1:1's but not so accurate with the rest.
I'm not sure how (if?!) I can make these figures work for me: can you help?
Kind regards,
Lily-Jane


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7060
Dear Lily-Jane

First of all, although this might be an interesting topic for discussion on the forum, please be reassured there is no way you have to explain the figures to a panel or "make them work" for you.

The figures look good to me. 83% of the "1" recommendations have qualified, and 58% of the "2" recommendations, so personally I would have faith in this school's judgement.

It's not surprising when there are a lot of "2" recommendations, as many of these could be borderline cases. I would be much more worried if there were a lot of "1" recommendations, many of whom have not qualified.

Hope this helps.



PS: If anyone wishes to post their figures on the forum, please do so exactly as Sally-Anne set out in the sticky: all the "1" recommendations should come first -
1:1
1:2
1:3
then all the "2's" -
2:1
2:2
2:3

Even better, here is my very rough guide to DIY! :D
On average I would expect around 80% of all the "1" recommendations to have qualified, and around 40% of all the "2" recommendations.
I would therefore be looking to see whether the head is above average.
Just my view!

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 36
Oh dear, ours don't look good.

1:1 6 (3)
1:2 1 (1)
1:3 0(0)
2:1 1(1)
2:2 3(0)
2:3 1(0)
3:1 )(0)
3:2 1 (0)
3:3 5 (5)
4's 7(0)

Should I be worried?

My DD is one of the 1:1's she got 120 as did another 1:1.

Any interpretation would be appreciated appeal is next week.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7060
Dear Nibbles

Officially there is now said to be no link between recommendation and score. (Under the old system, a "1" recommendation meant a predicted score of 131-141.)

The headteacher could therefore argue "I never expected most of these children to qualify, but nevertheless I do believe them to be suitable for grammar school."

It is for the panel to decide what they think of the head's recommendations. My guess is that they might be confused.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8203
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Nibbles

Etienne wrote:
It is for the panel to decide what they think of the head's recommendations. My guess is that they might be confused.

So was I, which is why I waited for Etienne to answer first. :D (I am a coward at heart!)

I will admit that the 5/5 on 3:3 is possibly the oddest ranking I have ever seen! If you have a chance to speak to the Head between now and your appeal it could be interesting to ask "just out of curiosity, and I know what a difficult business it must be" which criteria s/he gave most weight to when preparing the recommendations.

The Heads are supposed to use many factors when drawing up the recommendation, but we have already seen a number of examples this year where they clearly haven't followed that advice.

My guess is that s/he relied on one factor much more heavily than others, and that has produced this very odd distribution of results. I am thinking particularly of predicted SATs, which may test learning to date but not VR ability, which is mainly innate, not learned. From your post on the other thread it is clear that the school is under-achieving in SATs results compared to the Bucks average, so there are perhaps some bright pupils who are not being well-served at the school. That could help you explain to the panel what has gone on here.

I wouldn't worry too much though. With a score of 120 and a 1:1 recommendation, your DD was still deemed to be ideal GS material - top of the list - and you do not have a lot to prove with a shortfall of one mark.

Just make sure that you are putting the best possible academic evidence in front of the panel.

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:25 am
Posts: 8
Thank you for your encouraging reply Etienne. Sorry for not presenting the figures properly.

Etienne wrote:

It is for the panel to decide what they think of the head's recommendations. My guess is that they might be confused.


That's what worries me! Now that they have abolished the Order Of Suitability list for the panel to look at, I was wondering if this would affect how they interpret the HT recommendations. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Kind regards,
Lily-Jane


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Lily-Jane wrote:
Now that they have abolished the Order Of Suitability list for the panel to look at, I was wondering if this would affect how they interpret the HT recommendations. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


You won't be alone in that, believe me! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 36
I am very sorry Sally- Anne and Etienne I have just re-read my post and realised why you are confused I should have checked my posting more carefully (something I am always telling my DD - I should take more notice of my own advice).

The 3:3's should have read 0 (0), not 5(5)!

Nothwithstanding that, it still seems a disadvantage that the Head only got 4 out of 7.

He is new to the school and to Bucks but he has been on the appeal training and the yr5 and 6 teachers have been around a while.

But I wonder if it has made a difference as he will not have the association between a 1 recommendation and a high pass score, but I suspect in reality its the yr5 and 6 teachers that have the most influence over the ratings.

Thanks for your advice I am finding it very helpful, roll on next week. I will check future postings more carefully.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8203
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Nibbles

Please don't worry about it - we have all been there. :oops:

That makes things very much more straightforward. The Head's recommendations look quite sensible, and in just the right order.

I wouldn't even refer to them, apart from your DD being a 1:1.

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:59 pm
Posts: 15
Dear Etienne and Sally-Anne,

I was wondering if you could kindly interpret the results from the headteacher's recommendations from our school. They are as follows...

1:1 = 5(4)
1:2 = 3(3)
1:3 = 0(0)

2:1 = 2(1)
2:2 = 3(2)
2:3 = 0(0)

3:1 = 1(1)
3:2 = 4(1)
3:3 = 1(0)

Our son was the one with a 1:1 who didnt make it (he got 120 and 116).

Thank you !!


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