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 Post subject: appeal chances
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:12 am
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Location: winslow
Hello I just wondered if anyone could clarify something for me? I've heard rumours that if you go to a private school you stand a better chance of getting through appeal. Apparently this is due to the credit crunch. Parents can no longer afford private education so are opting for our lovely grammar schools. If this is the case then surely we stand no chance. Would like anyones views on this. I'm in Bucks by the way. Many thanks funkymum


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi funkymum

That's a new one on me! I shall certainly be posting it on the Bucks section on the new "Bucks 11+: Myths & Legends" sticky that I started last week due to popular demand!

You may want to take a look at that, because there are already some Appeal Myths on there. (Top of the Bucks section, BTW.)

The usual rumour is quite the opposite, which is that private school children stand less chance at an appeal because the panel simply assume that the parents can continue to afford to pay for a private education. (MYTH, MYTH, MYTH!)

I think the rumour you mention comes from the other MYTH that there are far more private schoolchildren in the Bucks 11+ system this year because of the credit crunch. That was explored and, I hope, debunked comprehensively on this thread:

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?t=7319

Elsewhere on the Forum it came to light that the increase in the numbers sitting the Bucks 11+ this year was a massive 0.2%. Or around 145 children.

Oh, and none of that has any bearing on Appeals anyway - see the "appeal places quota" myth on the sticky. Quite how someone has made the link between private school kids squeezing out state school kids slightly defeats me! Did they say more than that? I am intrigued!

Still, I suppose it all keeps people's minds off the pain of keeping their New Year Resolutions. :wink:

Any more where that one came from please? I love debunking myths!

Sally-Anne


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:12 am
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Location: winslow
Thank you Sally-Anne! Thank goodness for that! Another myth bites the dust! funkymum


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 Post subject: Re: appeal chances
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:52 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
funkymum wrote:
Hello I just wondered if anyone could clarify something for me? I've heard rumours that if you go to a private school you stand a better chance of getting through appeal. Apparently this is due to the credit crunch. Parents can no longer afford private education so are opting for our lovely grammar schools. If this is the case then surely we stand no chance. Would like anyones views on this. I'm in Bucks by the way. Many thanks funkymum


Hmm. Why would a child from a private school be brighter that one from a state school?

The only difference could be extra tutoring given within school, but then many state school parents have their children tutored after school as well. Also, the tutoring at private schools can start some time before the credit crunch started.

I'd hear this rumour as well, then on the day of the 11+ we heard that there were actually less children taking the exam than in previous years. Not that we complained, as of course, it gave a better chance of our children getting in! :D

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Capers


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Location: winslow
Hi Capers. I was wondering why they should be considered brighter but I think people get the impression that because they come from private school they might get better recommendations from the ht plus better report writing. I''ll not worry about that factor anymore. funkymum


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:17 pm 
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funkymum wrote:
Hi Capers. I was wondering why they should be considered brighter but I think people get the impression that because they come from private school they might get better recommendations from the ht plus better report writing. I''ll not worry about that factor anymore. funkymum


This is certainly true, in our experience. So of course as Capers says, it’s not to do with the relative brightness of the children in terms of taking the test.

However, most private school HTs will write glowing letters of recommendation which clearly gives private school children an unfair advantage when it comes to an appeal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
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Location: Gloucestershire
funkymum wrote:
Hi Capers. I was wondering why they should be considered brighter but I think people get the impression that because they come from private school they might get better recommendations from the ht plus better report writing. I''ll not worry about that factor anymore. funkymum


Private schools are as mixed ability as state primaries. Appeals panels are aware of the different styles of information. For instance, some private schools sell themselves on their ability to get their pupils into grammars, so the heads could be more enthusiastic in their recommendations (so they keep their reputation), whereas some state heads just don't like the 11+ so may (subconsciously) under sell the pupils. I think this could be apparent in the recommendation tables that are used in Bucks. We don't have the non-statutory system here, but we do take everything into account during an appeal.

That said, I do remember one remarkable letter from a private prep head underselling a pupil. All the evidence pointed the other way, and we suspected that he was trying to keep a gifted pupil in the school (attached to a senior school)...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:48 am
Posts: 57
HI,

Mine is in a private school...I can tell you that the HT hasnt Rob.... :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1268
Blimey, Phil, what have you been paying for, eh! :lol:

Seriously, though, you must have been very unlucky.

All I can say is that our particular panel kept on referring back to the HT’s recommendations (which had been based on CATs scores, despite guidelines advising against this approach) and the fact that DD only had a ‘3’.

From our school all those appealing with a ‘3’ recommendation have failed their appeals and all those with a ‘2’ have passed even where the academic evidence would seem to contradict those recommendations.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Rob Clark wrote:
However, most private school HTs will write glowing letters of recommendation which clearly gives private school children an unfair advantage when it comes to an appeal.


Another MYTH, Rob. I have seen many Head's summaries, and there is no overall difference between state Heads and private ones. The only difference I notice is when a state Head is "anti-selection", and there have been a couple of cases like that this year, but that balances out with some prep school Heads wanting to keep the child on the (financial) books for another 2 or more years.

Over time, panel members build up a picture of the Head's reliability anyway. Any Head who is known to over-exaggerate their pupils' ability on a regular basis will lose credibility.

S-A


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