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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:17 pm 
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Location: Berkshire
I have a question regarding the translation of raw scores in Sats to percentiles etc to show where a child lies in terms of their ability.

My son has recently performed very well in a Maths practice SATS test - his scores were Non Calc 39/40, Calc 36/40, Mental Maths 20/20...This gives us a score then of 95/100. I have to say this was very similar to yr 5 optional sats test

He is a May birthday so fairly young for his year.

Is he grammar school material?

He scored 137 NVR and 122 VR NFER standardised scores in October.

I am now beginning to have doubts as to whether we should appeal.
Practice Science Sats so far have achieved level 5C, and the English - he scored 5A in a practice for Reading but only 4B in writing!

Do the scores that I have given translate anywhere into where he would stand in a normal distribution of 11 year olds?

We dont have CAT scores etc - so I cant figure out percentiles etc ....and what I want someone to tell me is....is there any point in appealing, do I imagine him to be worthy when he clearly isn't because he couldn't perform on the day? (Slough area - score 106, pass mark 111) - no maths test for the first year ever)

We have to wait until after Easter for our appeal and it is driving me very slowly mad, as he keeps imagining that I can fix this bad thing that has happened, and I know I can't.


Any (more! :D ) advice - (and thank you all for that already given) would be very much appreciated, as I feel a bit like giving up!

Thanks and sorry for going on and on and on.....

LFH


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:20 pm 
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I would appeal with these levels - will you get HT support?

95% in the Maths is a level 5a - a top level 5 -


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Location: berkshire
We had a discussion on the forum as to whether there would be some children disadvantaged by the change to the format of the exam.
Your son does seem to fall into this area. He excels on the Maths/Science side and has a good reading ability but his writing (and therefore his VR) is possibly not so advanced. Was this where he lost marks on the exam?

As you can show his high ability in two of the core subjects then it is worth a go.... but 5 marks in the consortium exam is a fair gap.... did he take the Slough Grammar exam... if so did he do well on their Maths & NVR Papers. If he did pass the SG exam but your preference is a Consortium school then you should present this as part of your evidence....
Apologies if you have already posted this info.... I will try and look back over the posts.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:40 am 
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Location: Berkshire
Hi and thanks for your replies.
Guest55 - we have HT support and the class teacher's both have written letters supporting our son as he is one of the top of his class.
Chad - we opted only for the consortium schools as I didn't really want to put him through 2 tests, as we only really wanted him to go to the same school as his older siblings.
He did pass the NVR exam with 112, but a very poor VR score of 99 let him down badly. Although his writing score (4B) is lower that all the rest we were still shocked by the low VR score as in his practice tests he always did very well,in time etc so we weren't unduly worried (having been through this 3 times before). We were truthfully also really shocked by the NVR score as he was really very good at that - at times I struggle with some of the questions and he would be explaining to me what the answer was!
I know that the number of children to get through appeal in Slough is very low, and I am becoming increasingly disheartened - I just can't think of a proper reason other than nerves, and other people I know who are appealing have discovered their children are dyslexic and have other learning difficulties -we have no problems that we can use.
Anyway, thanks for the advice it is much appreciated.
LFH


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:01 am 
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Looking for help wrote:
He scored 137 NVR and 122 VR NFER standardised scores in October.

Slough area - score 106, pass mark 111


Those are really totally inconsistent results. What was the NFER standardised test? Can it be used as evidence?

Maybe you should ask for your paper to be remarked/reviewed. 106 and 137 are just not consistent. One of those numbers looks wrong.

Regards
SVE

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:10 am 
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Hi SVE,

Therein lies my problem :(

The NFER tests were taken in school and the head has included them in her letter of support - but I feel that they are probably different from the 11+ so how much weight can we give them?

I just need more evidence ! But you're right, maybe the NFER tests are wrong, and the 11+ is a true reflection of his ability, in which case there's no point in appealing!

I dont think they will remark the test, but I haven't asked that question.

Thanks

LFH


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:35 am 
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No single test is reliable!

A score of 137 looks like the 99th percentile, and there is a 90% chance the "true score" lies in the range 124-140.

A score of 122 is at the 93rd percentile, and there is a 90% chance the "true score" lies in the range 111-128.

I would certainly submit the NFER scores as evidence, but they are no more reliable than the 11+ scores. I suggest saying to the panel "We realise these NFER tests are not exactly the same as the 11+, but they are good scores and we would ask you please to take them into account as part of the overall academic evidence."

What is written in the Appeal Q&As about CATs applies equally to other NFER tests:

[quote]B4. Would a very high CAT score be regarded as equivalent to an 11+ pass?

Panel members may well have been advised in their training to avoid making direct comparisons between the 11+ and other types of test. Different tests measure different things, might be carried out under different conditions, and could be standardised differently.

Beware, too, of a single isolated result. A CAT score comes with the usual “healthâ€

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Looking for help wrote:
I dont think they will remark the test, but I haven't asked that question.


Don't rule it out. Even computers (particularly OCR readers) make mistakes although very very rarely.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Thanks Etienne and SVE for your advice.

I was told by the primary head who asked the GS whether there could possibly be anything wrong with the marking, and was told that the results were reliable.

I imagine I would appear to be causing trouble should I ask for the papers to be remarked....although my older son's GCSE Science was upgraded from a BB to AA because it was incorrectly marked so I wouldn't be surprised. :!:

I thought I heard somewhere on this forum that papers of appellants were routinely remarked to rule out any problems.

Thanks

LFH


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Dear LFH

Quote:
I thought I heard somewhere on this forum that papers of appellants were routinely remarked to rule out any problems.
I would be surprised if the papers of appellants were routinely remarked. In Bucks, for example, a free remark is available but only on request.
Quote:
I imagine I would appear to be causing trouble should I ask for the papers to be remarked
It is very, very rare for any mistakes to be found, but requesting a remark may be the only way of putting your mind at rest?

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