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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:10 am 
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My DS recently passed 11 plus at grammar school, however is on a waiting list due to oversubscription. Waiting list will grow as all boys with high scores who have accepted places in other grammars in the area have been invited to join waiting list too. So at this stage do not know ranking only that 359 boys passed.

My DS had 2 5s and 1 4a in year 5, and predicted all 5s for SATS. In maths he got a 4a last year and with "skilled & talented" group within the school for the last year has predicted 5a (in mocks got 5a) and told by his class teacher he would get at least a c at gcse if he sat it just now. My point with this being that with a high level of teaching he has improved vastly and my feeling is he would benefit in the same way from GS.

when we went to the GS open day, the head said that no tutoring was necessary, which I naively believed. He sat another test in the area which he failed badly, after that I did tests with him at home for a month or so, after which he sat and passed GS.

The GS is big on sport and maths. My DS has also been scouted and plays for a youth chartered team, which is doing v. well.

His current primary has not shown any interest in support for GS' as in partnership with local comps, so not sure would get their support. Although his year 5 teacher (ex GS teacher) said he was good enough for GS.

Only one other boy in my DS' class went for GS'. He got into this GS, however my son did better than him in all 3 mock SATS. (Am pleased for other boy - he deserves it and his mother v. supportive, in fact one suggesting appeal)

I guess am just wondering if it is worth appealing without schools support (although I could try and talk to the HT) and with him failing another 11 plus?

There are other personal circumstances which could be attributed to him not doing his best on the day, but not sure if this would be taken into account.

Any advice would be welcome. Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:06 am 
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Are you within the catchment for a grammar that does not have high scores as part of its admissions criteria?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:31 am 
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There are no GS in our borough, there are 3 in adjoining one; which all select on results only.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:14 pm 
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Quote:
I guess am just wondering if it is worth appealing without schools support

Most panels will have come across this sort of situation before, and will understand.

However, they will need to see some really good evidence from you.

As score was a criterion, you can submit academic evidence to show your son was expected to perform even better than he did! The last school report might help (if it's the kind of school report that mentions achievement!).

Even if the school won't support you, you are entitled to have access to your son's record. See one of the other threads about access to school records.
viewtopic.php?t=9584
(You should just request a copy of the record before resorting to using the DPA.)

It's also worth mentioning the extenuating circumstances.

Secondly, you should provide as much evidence as possible of why this particular GS would suit your son (sport and maths, for example).

The chances of success depend on some factors over which you have no control (e.g. how strong a case the school puts forward to resist further admissions, how strong the other appellants' cases are).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Thank you for your reply, Etienne. I have read through some of the threads and am impressed with the knowledge you and others in the forum have. As you may have guessed I have no idea about these things and it seems all areas have v. different approaches. Am guessing nothing ventured, nothing gained so will request an appeal, I will also approach the school. I have reports and his strengths tie in nicely with the school. Is it worth comparing my ds to the boy I know who passed? I just read in some threads that comparisons count for something. I imagine I will receive forms which will guide me further? will I need to say he sat other test in the area and failed? (this will obviously not look good!) is the lack of tutoring worth mentioning given they said at the open day not to tutor? the circumstances I was refering to that made me wonder if he did not do his best was his father had to go overseas at short notice the week before christmas and returned on the eve of his test at the beginning of Jan, therefore a late night and over excitement after 3 weeks of being unsettled! Sorry, if I am repeating questions or rambling, but I really do appreciate the help.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:32 pm 
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Dear Vest
Quote:
Is it worth comparing my ds to the boy I know who passed? I just read in some threads that comparisons count for something.
Not sure that they do! An appeal panel will have no hard evidence about third parties (and the Data Protection Act would prohibit them from doing so), so I don't see how they can make any sort of judgement when the facts cannot be substantiated.

Quote:
I imagine I will receive forms which will guide me further?
You may need to take the initiative and ask (make sure you don't miss the deadline). Some authorities provide helpful information packs, others offer not much more than a form to fill in!
Quote:
will I need to say he sat other test in the area and failed? (this will obviously not look good!)
No need to mention it, as far as I can see.

Quote:
is the lack of tutoring worth mentioning given they said at the open day not to tutor?
You can try, but most appeal panels wouldn't take lack of tutoring into account!
Quote:
the circumstances I was refering to that made me wonder if he did not do his best was his father had to go overseas at short notice the week before christmas and returned on the eve of his test at the beginning of Jan, therefore a late night and over excitement after 3 weeks of being unsettled!
It's certainly worth a mention. Difficult to say whether it would carry much weight. You don't sound too sure yourself ("It made me wonder whether ......"). :)

Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:27 am 
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Etienne, thanks again for the response. So one last question for now (if I go ahead I hope it is okay to come back to you). It seems I am just going to appeal as I think he is bright enough to get in and would benefit hugely from GS - is this really enough for an appeal?Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:11 pm
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Location: Barnet
Etienne wrote:
Even if the school won't support you, you are entitled to have access to your son's record.
(You should just request a copy of the record before resorting to using the DPA.)


Etienne, or anyone else, but would you know whethere it is possible to get info from independants in the same way?

One of the biggest flaws in this whole 11+ process I feel is the lack of feedback and I think this may apply to the independants more than the state schools...

Many thanks in advance..

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:52 pm 
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As far as I can see, independent schools are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act, but the DPA ought to apply.
Quote:
So what’s the difference?
The Data Protection Act allows you to see the personal information that is held about you by organisations of all types – such as the NHS in the public sector or your bank in the private sector. Examples of personal information include your name, address and telephone number, your bank account number, your medical records and the things you buy when you are shopping.

The Freedom of Information Act gives you rights to see official information held by public authorities such as local councils, hospitals and the police . For example, you could ask your local council for information about hygiene inspections in local restaurants or ask a university for exam pass rates.

Further information is available on the ICO website
http://www.ico.gov.uk/Home/what_we_cove ... ction.aspx
and there is a helpline.

Vest wrote:
Etienne, thanks again for the response. So one last question for now (if I go ahead I hope it is okay to come back to you). It seems I am just going to appeal as I think he is bright enough to get in and would benefit hugely from GS - is this really enough for an appeal?Thanks in advance.

Focus on the following:
1. Are there any extenuating circumstances to explain the gap between the mark achieved and the cut-off score?

2. Is there sufficient academic evidence to show that a higher score was expected?

3. What specific reasons do you have for wanting a place at the school? Are these reasons backed up by evidence?

If you feel this is the right school for your son, then you should try.

Please do come back to us if we can be of any further help.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:11 pm
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Location: Barnet
[quote="Etienne"]As far as I can see, independent schools are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act, but the DPA ought to apply.
Further information is available on the ICO website
http://www.ico.gov.uk/Home/what_we_cove ... ction.aspx
and there is a helpline.

Thanks Etienne...I actually called the ICO who were v. helpful and they confirmed Independants can also approached with the DPA.

Admittedly, I will first see over the next few weeks what school I can ascertain for my son as this whole approach could mean I will be stepping on some toes - both at the independant, and my son's current school, whose help I need at the moment...But knowing I can get down to the nitty gritty is good enough for the time being.... :o

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