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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:50 pm 
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Etienne - or anyone else who might help!

There's something I'm not clear about on the Transfer appeals process.

I've read/heard on a quite a few occasions that being in catchment gives you a distinct advantage at a transfer appeal for a school.

Imagine Child A is in catchment for an oversubscribed school. They go on the waiting list and lodge an appeal.

Suppose Child A has a successful appeal in part because they are in catchment and Child B, who is not in catchment, fails at appeal because Child A's admission to the school has tipped the prejudice in favour of the school in considering whether to admit child B....am I making sense so far??!

What if Child A would have got in eventually via the waiting list? The spare place from the waiting list will go to another child but certainly not Child B because being out of catchment they are probably too far down the list. So Child B would have been successful if Child A had waited it out on the waiting list but now has lost out on a place.

Do you see my point - if catchment is the only criterion for the waiting list and a significant criterion for the transfer appeal, then an out of catchment child might as well not bother!

Etienne just how much weight do the IAP give to proximity to the school and catchment?

Thanks for sticking with me thru that one!

BM


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:14 pm 
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Dear BM

Being in catchment might carry some weight, but it wouldn't necessarily be decisive.

When I was hearing oversubscription appeals, each panel member gave the parental case a mark out of 5.

For example, one panel member might give 1 point for being in catchment, 1 for a 6th form sibling, 1 for logistical problems.

Another panel member might see things somewhat differently, and give 2 points for being in catchment, 0 for a 6th form sibling, 1 for logistical problems

An appellant with really compelling social/medical reasons (and supporting evidence) would probably have got a 4 or a 5 straight away if the panel accepted this was the most appropriate school in the circumstances.

Cases with an average score of 4-5 were more likely to succeed, but it would depend on the strength of the school case, and the strength of the other appellants' cases.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:59 am 
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Does being outside the catchment, but being closer to the school than some pupils in the catchment have any impact (the main catchment area is not centred on the school but on the midpoint between two schools)?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:18 am 
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Again, different panel members will have different views. These are somewhat subjective judgements.

Personally I wouldn't have been interested in comparing the appellant's distance with that of children who are in catchment, but I would have given a point if the child lives near the school.

The emphasis, it seems to me, should be on the parents' reasons for wanting a place, rather than on the anomalies of the system.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Location: Gloucestershire
The school for which I did appeals didn't have a catchment area as such.

Panel members use their own methods for trying to quantify appeals when it comes to the final stage (if they are not all allowed) - some might use Etiennes points system.

However, if I came across an appeal where the child was going to be travelling for at least an hour each way, I would be worried that the child would not get a brilliant experience if the appeal was allowed: after school clubs could be ruled out or make it very late getting home, starting homework would be later than local children thus giving less time for play / relaxation / socialising. So if they did stay to an afterschool club that ended at 4:45, walk to station, arrive 5:15, next train 5:45, home station 6:15, then get from station to home. Eat dinner, homework, bed. To station at 7:30am to get train to school Not too bad for a 16 year old, but not much of a life for an 11 year old.

Likewise interaction with school friends when out of school would be more difficult (especially if they were living an equal distance the other side of the school)...

I would not turn down an appeal just on this. I might not give it as high a priority as a child living closer, but the appeal is not just about distance and all the other factors would be taken into account. All other things being equal between two appeals, the closer child would get my vote if there was only one place we could allow.

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Capers


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:49 pm 
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[ if there was only one place we could allow]
That's an interesting comment Capers, are you suggesting you have a number you can allow when hearing appeals?[/quote]


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Etienne, Capers or indeed anybody.

We're still deciding whether to go for an appeal based on first pref school's specialisms.

DC's maths teacher has predicted 5a in SATS and says DC's maths score at end of Year 5 was ' a standardised score of 127 in the NFER's Progress in Maths 10'

Two questions

1. what on earth does that mean and is it good? i've never heard of it so don't know if it's worth mentioning

2. would a panel know what it means or would we have to explain it?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Quote:
That's an interesting comment Capers, are you suggesting you have a number you can allow when hearing appeals?

No. A panel must consider in each case whether the parents' reasons for wanting a place outweigh the prejudice to the school.

Assuming they are minded to uphold a number of appeals, they then have to consider whether the school could cope with that number of (potentially) successful appeals.

If they believe that the school could not cope, they have to compare cases, decide which are the strongest, and at what point the prejudice to the school becomes too great. (Each time they admit an extra pupil, of course, the prejudice to the school has become greater.)

In theory (and I stress 'in theory') they could reach this point after allowing just one appeal.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:44 pm 
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Quote:
DC's maths teacher has predicted 5a in SATS and says DC's maths score at end of Year 5 was ' a standardised score of 127 in the NFER's Progress in Maths 10'

Two questions

1. what on earth does that mean and is it good? i've never heard of it so don't know if it's worth mentioning

2. would a panel know what it means or would we have to explain it?


Dear BM

127 looks like a high score to me.

To get an idea of nationally standardised scores, have a look at the table in the Q&As at the end of B28.

It's certainly worth mentioning, and I think most panels would recognise a score in the upper 120s as being very good.

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Etienne


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