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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:15 am 
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Comparisons with evidence which has been successful for other pupils?

E.g. Son missed by 2 points but was deemed suitable on HT report and school statistics.
DDs year end Standardised scores are both higher than his and more consistent ( the gap between English and Maths, also VR and NVR is closer.)
So, given that they both had extremely strong HT support and were/ are both predicted all 5s in the summer, doesn't that mean that if he was deemed successful, she should be too?

Also we can now compare with a pupil who was deemed suitable at the non-statutory review. Again she had a HT's report and predicted 5s, also very similar standardised scores. She also had a Fischer Family Trust report on KS1 results which ranked her against the other 11+ passers in her primary school, showing that she clearly belongs in the cohort. We didn't have this info in the non statutory review, but do now. It shows our DD ranked 2nd.
Again the same question, as a panel member, if a parent points out that this info has been used successfully by another,how much weight would you give it?

Thanks again for any advice given
Bouga


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:54 am 
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Hi, Bouga

On the panels I sat on, comparisons with other (non-qual.) cases would have been ruled out of order. The clerk would have intervened "We're here to discuss this case on its own merits."

Even in oversubscription cases that are being heard at the same time, the Code states that there is to be no comparison between individual cases - unless the panel is minded to uphold more appeals than it feels the school could cope with.

The information you've gathered is still useful in that it's an indicator of what might impress the panel, but I would avoid direct reference to other cases.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:38 am 
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We wouldn't have all the details about these other pupils, or it could be presented in a biased manner. So I wouldn't, even if presented as part of the case, consider it.

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Capers


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:37 pm 
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Could I just ask the experts here whether an appeals panel would consider comparison to other siblings of the child being appealed for already at grammar ?
Thanks ,
LFH


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:50 am
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Location: surrey
Although as panel members you might not take these points into account when making a decision, the duty of the panel is at least to consider all the evidence presented by a parent, although at the end of the day a particular point might not be a deciding factor.

I do not think there is any harm in a parent presenting what is important to them as part of their case after all it is up to a parent as to what evidence they put forward and how they should organise their case.
I take the point about panel members not making comparisons between cases as that is a must not under the code unless of course there are several cases which outweigh prejudice.
However if a parent compares their child's circumstances to another in their evidence as a panel you should at least consider it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:14 pm 
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Hi, thanks for the replies.
I think for the ranking info we weren't going to compare anyway, just make the point that this document was used successfully as part of another appeal, and our review panel specifically asked us for it and we didn't have it, but do now.
As for the comparison with her brother, wouldn't that cut any ice at all? - Same question as looking for help really. After all, we presented his case at appeal also, and know for a fact that there were no mitigating circs. We also have provided his statistics (glad we kept a copy now) with hers which clearly show that her end of Year scores are higher and closer together.
Once again, thanks to all
bouga


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:24 pm 
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I sympathise with Catcool's point, but any discussion of third party cases could raise data protection issues.

This wouldn't necessarily apply to siblings, of course, and I have indeed sat through my fair share of cases groaning inwardly as parents discussed their other children's abilities! The panel is not there to weigh up the relative merits of siblings - it is there to hear the case for the child whose appeal it is, and I doubt the wisdom of diluting one's case by introducing arguments that carry no weight.

Bouga - your question was posed in general terms, and that's how I've tried to answer it. You have a specific issue about the availability of the ranking document.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:30 pm 
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Many thanks Etienne. Sorry if I have gone on about this.
Bouga


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:01 pm 
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To clarify then could Etienne answer the following:

1. Is an appeal panel determining each appeal on an absolute basis? ie without reference to other appeals to be determined for the particular school.

2. Or does an appeal panel consider each appeal on a relative basis? Ie the panel ranks each appeal in terms of strength for the particular school.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Dear obiterdicta

The answer is (1) - unless in so doing the panel is minded to uphold more appeals than it feels the school can cope with, in which case it moves on to (2)!

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... ers.php#c2
C2b (penultimate paragraph)

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