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 Post subject: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:06 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Rugby
I have spoken to quite a few parents about 11 plus recently and have been surprised that every one of them has confidently talked about doing VR practice papers. I am under the impression that VR is not part of the Warwickshire 11 plus and that it would be better described as English, not VR. (missing words, cloze test, synonyms and antonyms etc).

Either those I speak to, or I am widely off the mark. Several of these parents are employing tutors as well. What is going on?

It appears from my (limited) experience, many parents (and some tutors) are preparing for the old style 11 plus.

Either that or everything I have learnt from this forum is wrong!

DE

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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:37 am
Posts: 408
Hi DarkEnergy

Have a look at this link. It's some new detail (albeit very brief in context) on what constitutes VR, NVR and NR in the exam.

http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/Corp ... 20Info.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:06 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Rugby
Thanks Optimist.
That document supports what people on this forum have been saying.

The verbal reasoning section includes comprehension and reading skills. A
wide knowledge of vocabulary is an advantage.


The worry then is why are so many people continuing to learn the traditional VR question types. There is nothing wrong with them, but if they are not tested on them, why bother?
DE

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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:42 am
Posts: 235
Location: South Warwickshire
When my eldest did the CEM test 2 years ago he said there was no NFER-style VR in the exam at all. He knew that format well, because we were well into our preparation by the time it became public knowledge that the format had changed to CEM so we had done NFER, Bond, Susan Daughtry etc. He said there were some vocabularly questions - not quite like the Birmingham KE multiple choice synonyms, but a bit more like some NFER vocab questions because you have to write the word based on a clue. Also, I have heard some reports that the vocab questions were a bit more varied in style than my son remembered. I am 99% sure that there will be no questions involving things like codes and sequences of letters, and there is not much point in preparing for such questions. But anything could come up, I suppose. This time we have done a little bit of Bond and Athey VR, but we normally only bother with the vocab questions and leave the others out.

All we have to go on is a few anguished memories of shell-shocked 10 year olds! As someone said on another thread, it is all so underhand and shrouded in myth and rumour, it is as if we are chasing some sort of "Black Market" education, especially when you live outside the LEA in question, like me.

I was really pleased when I heard about the format change last time because I felt it played more to my son's strengths and also doing endless VR 21 types is so tedious. We got the impression a lot of tutors and indies were caught out by the new format and a lot of children had a nasty shock in the exam when it was like nothing they had expected. I would have thought tutors have got their act in gear by now. I have to admit I felt a shiver down my spine when I heard that our nearest prep school had all the year 6s back from summer early last week for a full 5 days of solid 11+ preparation. As a DIY-er I think it is natural to worry you may not be giving your child the best opportunity, so I confess I find it encouraging that you think some tutors may be on the wrong track still, DarkEnergy! Thanks for cheering me up! Maybe for some tutors and prep school teachers, it is just a job and they don't bother researching it that much. For us, sadly, it is an obsession!

Oh well, not long to go now and I am looking forward to a rest in October... until March when it is time to start on the next one. Except I won't be resting properly, because we will be into The Wait and I will be agonising about this year's result every waking moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:05 am
Posts: 349
Wot Bad Dad said :D

:shock: at the prep school recalling their year 6s a week early!!


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:26 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Redditch, Worcs
Now Im getting confused , and worried.

The AGS / Warks site said that the exam is made up of 2 x 45 minute tests, including a 20 minute VR test. So what exactly does that part of the test entail then ?

My little buddy is really good at shapes and codes etc, so this is our big strenghth - a massive downer if there wont be any .


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:45 pm
Posts: 390
I was also under the impression that CEM tests don't cover typical VR. We have been focusing on comprehension, cloze and vocabulary, although we have done some "normal" VR practice papers just in case. I, however, am no expert and would really like to know if others believe codes etc may come up.


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:26 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Redditch, Worcs
The prosprectus says :

20 mins VR
15 mins Comprehension
10 mins Cloze

So one has to assume that the VR is NOT comprehension or Cloze - so what is it if not traditional VR ?


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:06 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Rugby
If you check out the extensive info on the Birmingham pages (They do Durham CEM as well), you will find many references to questions on antonyms and synonyms. Maybe these are what they call VR.

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 Post subject: Re: Verbal Reasoning
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:37 am
Posts: 408
DarkEnergy wrote:
If you check out the extensive info on the Birmingham pages (They do Durham CEM as well), you will find many references to questions on antonyms and synonyms. Maybe these are what they call VR.


You are right, the "VR" will really be vocab questions, based around synonyms, antonyms, homonyms. This sounds about right given the following statement from Warks 11+ definition:

Quote:
20 minutes verbal reasoning test manipulation of verbal representations and the solving of verbally presented problems requiring orthographic, syntactic and semantic abilities, logic and other problem solving skills.


I guess that:

Syntax looks at the order and arrangement of words within a phrase or clause. This could be making a sentence from jumbled up words.

Semantics looks at the study of meaning. This could be vocab questions, based around synonyms, antonyms, homonyms.

Orthographic - not sure what this means. Can anyone shed any light?


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