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 Post subject: Late Applications
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:19 pm
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Split from Alcester Grammer School September 2011

Congratulations on the place.

I was just wondering if it is a good idea to miss the 11+ exam and take it late on the basis the child is a lot older, have covered more work at school and will have the benefit of knowing the type of questions asked and format?

In fact, some parents can provide the actual questions asked.

The exact format is not disclosed, for October tests, just a guide. Do students have to learn VR Type 1-21 questions?
We just did not know. Take it in April, and you know for defininite that this is not part of the exam. A great advantage
as one does not have to waste time in preparation for the so called tutor proof exam (pigs fly)!

I was just wondering if anyone has used this strategy, especially if they are out of area and have no chance of a first round offer.
Surely, taking the test in April would give a child a better chance of being top of the waiting list considering age weighting is negligible. It seems a good way of "playing the system".

I do not mean to suggest this was used by the original poster and do not mean to cause any offence. I am just considering the merits of this strategy for out of area children.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
You can only take the exam late if you have clear medical proof of illness on the day, or it is a religious day of observance and you have a letter from your religious leader.
Even then, the exam would be taken either the next day or within 2 weeks.
I can't see if many, or any, children, would be taking this exam as late as April! The places are allocated on 1 March :!:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:32 pm 
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um wrote:
You can only take the exam late if you have clear medical proof of illness on the day, or it is a religious day of observance and you have a letter from your religious leader.
Even then, the exam would be taken either the next day or within 2 weeks.
I can't see if many, or any, children, would be taking this exam as late as April! The places are allocated on 1 March :!:


I think you can take the 11+ at any time and be considered as a late application.
You do not get a place in March (but an out of area applicant would not any way).
You can take it in April and join the waiting list.

Read the OP. The girl sat the 11+ late and joined the waiting list and was allocated a place.

"My daughter has just sat the late 11+ for Alcester Grammer and scored 358 points so she was put to the top of the waiting list and we have just received confirmation that she has received a place."


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:20 am 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
BoltBlue wrote:
I think you can take the 11+ at any time and be considered as a late application.
You have to be moving into the area to take the test late, and have proof of that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:29 am 
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Sally-Anne wrote:
BoltBlue wrote:
I think you can take the 11+ at any time and be considered as a late application.
You have to be moving into the area to take the test late, and have proof of that.


I think it is an intention to move, and not actually a move.
There is a difference.

But is this moving close by as well, yet out of area?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:08 am 
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It's a move into the area.

I believe you can indeed make a late application at any time. You are guessing that age effects are negligible, there is no information to support or contradict the statement.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:46 am 
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mike1880 wrote:
It's a move into the area.

I believe you can indeed make a late application at any time. You are guessing that age effects are negligible, there is no information to support or contradict the statement.

Mike


There is evidence. Just ring Warwickshire and ask how many marks an August born child was uplifted from September.
It is negligable. They have the data and will give it you.

For applications prior to the deadline, it is an intention to move backed up with evidence, but not a move.
Eg exchange of contracts is sufficient. This of course can fall through.

I would say an out of area child should delay the test to April, by which time more is coverd at school and the format of the paper is widely available, as well as type of questions. This means less and more focused preparation.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
Quote:
There is evidence. Just ring Warwickshire and ask how many marks an August born child was uplifted from September.
It is negligable. They have the data and will give it you


I'm afraid that statement is incorrect - the difference can be quite significant

I did obtain a copy of the age standardisation conversion table a few years ago for B/Ham KE Foundation which is a similar Univ of Durham exam, the following is an extract of a posting I made at the time:-


Quote:
The conversion of raw marks to standardised scores for a particular Grammar School will vary with Age profile - the difference can often be quite significant.

For example, in the Birmingham KE VR Tests in 2004 , to achieve a Standardised Score of 118 a child aged 11.18 years on the exam day would have to achieve score 71/100, whereas a child who was only 10.22 years would only have to score 65/100. Quite a difference.

You should also note that the raw 'pass' scores are significantly lower than the previous NFER tests (and most of those used in other Grammar Schools around the country).



Don't think you can say 6% at the age extremes is negligible


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:18 pm 
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I was posting about Warwickshire, armed with FACTS.

The greatest difference is 31st Aug 2000 and 1st Sep 1999 births.

Assume a raw score of 190. The standardised score this year for
31st Aug =465 and
1st Sep = 458

Less than 2% uplift.

I say insignificant.

As I stated, ring Warwickshire and they will give you the facts.
I find them extremely helpful.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
Unfortunately the fact is that the differences can and do change from year to year due to the cohort and the difficulty of the papers. This can be as high as 6%.

You can't just take a percentage of the average Age Standardised score (in your case 116.25 and 114.5) as this is not a linear relationship - this would not be statistically valid.

What you need to do is to find out the difference in raw scores for the 2 extremes of age for a given fixed base Age standardarised score. I would choose the pass Age Standardised and then divide by the unit number of Age Standardisations used to create the total Age Standardised score.

The difference between the raw scores divided by the total raw score possible gives you the true percentage.

Unfortunately a little knowledge about the Age Standardisation process can be a dangerous thing


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