Practice papers don't always help ...

Eleven Plus (11+) in Warwickshire

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serendippyty
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:23 pm

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by serendippyty »

I would think that any type of paper or book might help in that it will increase vocabulary / mathematical speed or whatever.

(says the mother who has done not a jot with any of hers prior to the 11!).
J.P.
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:58 am

Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by J.P. »

My eldest started with Bond, then did other similar free papers Eg *** and then did all the past Year 6 maths and comphension Sats papers before his 11+. This included paper A and paper B (but without a calculator). Then moved on to a few private school exams - some of which were very difficult.

Vocabulary/cloze passages: ***

Unfortunately this meant year 6 was a waste of time at school and boring. Nothing learnt as it was all covered in 11+ prep.
But, it did secure a Grammar School place.

Hope it helps.
ginx
Posts: 2151
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by ginx »

J.P.

As I've said, we started with Bond, but did various papers.

Whilst I don't hope year 6 is a waste of time at school, it would be useful if the knowledge learned for the 11+ helps my daughter. She has move up in literacy but remained the same in maths.

She did say one of her friends said her 11+ tutor had taught her to do maths in a different, quicker way. This may well be true, maths being my daughter's weaker point. We couldn't afford tutoring and anyway, we're against it - although we did practice at home.

Hope it secures her a grammar place as well!
peter doe
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by peter doe »

It's more about the skills that the child acquire .The child might think those types of questions did not appear but they would have used the skills learned from doing those practice questions in doing whatever that appeared in the exam.
Okanagan
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by Okanagan »

ginx wrote:She did say one of her friends said her 11+ tutor had taught her to do maths in a different, quicker way
Probably true. We did find that ds's school had rather overemphasised the "always show your workings" approach (presumably with SATS in mind) so that he'd become convinced he wasn't allowed to do things in his head and just put down the answer if he could do it that way. They've also admitted that they deliberately didn't do things with the top groups because they had to leave enough of the Y6 curriculum for this year in order to be able to show progress. A case of targets preventing the performance rather than encouraging it methinks!

Having worked on maths with ds over the summer it's even more apparent now, looking at what he's doing at school compares to the 11+/indie papers we'd been doing at home just how big a gulf there is between the levels. His supposed 30 minutes homework was completed in 3 minutes. Fill in the gaps in this series anyone 3,?,9,12,?,18 - and lots more at that standard - and this is supposed to be top group maths! We'll definately be back to doing out of school maths - at least to the extent of using up the spare homework time - once he's had a post-exam break for a few weeks.
Paramjeet
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by Paramjeet »

Practice at home is still tutoring as I have been reminded on numerous occasions; and there's nothing wrong with that
J.P.
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:58 am

Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by J.P. »

Paramjeet wrote:Practice at home is still tutoring as I have been reminded on numerous occasions; and there's nothing wrong with that
I totally agree. But some people say they are anti-tutoring and tutor themselves or give work themselves. I find this attitude amusing. Work done in addition to what your school gives is "tutoring". Be it paying someone or doing it yourself. There is little difference. An intelligent parent can tutor as well as a person paid to tutor. I think few children who are successful are not tutored, and rely soley on their school to pass the 11+ in B'ham, Warks, Walsall etc. I think most are "tutored" by one means or another, or should I say, do extra work. A naturally intelligent child does not do any extra work. Very few exist!
serendippyty
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:23 pm

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by serendippyty »

J.P. wrote:
Paramjeet wrote:Practice at home is still tutoring as I have been reminded on numerous occasions; and there's nothing wrong with that
I totally agree. But some people say they are anti-tutoring and tutor themselves or give work themselves. I find this attitude amusing. Work done in addition to what your school gives is "tutoring". Be it paying someone or doing it yourself. There is little difference. An intelligent parent can tutor as well as a person paid to tutor. I think few children who are successful are not tutored, and rely soley on their school to pass the 11+ in B'ham, Warks, Walsall etc. I think most are "tutored" by one means or another, or should I say, do extra work. A naturally intelligent child does not do any extra work. Very few exist!
I don't think that is true. I think many who are tutored would pass without tutoring just with lower marks. We haven't tutored. I bought a few resources but my children refused to do them. My eldest did not pass, my son did... we will see about no 3 in a few weeks!
peter doe
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by peter doe »

The people who wrote the anti-tutoring piece ,they themselves would have tutored or send their children to private school.If a parent does not help their child in any way and that child go and pass the exam easily ,good on that child and congrats to him/her for doing so well even though the parent never really care for their education enough to help them prepare for a very important exam .

One question that always bothered me though ,where is the evidence that tutoring (teaching) a child might be bad for them ?Don't the schools still put out mostly 100% pass rate in higher exams every year ?
serendippyty
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:23 pm

Re: Practice papers don't always help ...

Post by serendippyty »

peter doe wrote:The people who wrote the anti-tutoring piece ,they themselves would have tutored or send their children to private school.If a parent does not help their child in any way and that child go and pass the exam easily ,good on that child and congrats to him/her for doing so well even though the parent never really care for their education enough to help them prepare for a very important exam .

One question that always bothered me though ,where is the evidence that tutoring (teaching) a child might be bad for them ?Don't the schools still put out mostly 100% pass rate in higher exams every year ?
Totally harsh to infer that non tutoring means you don't care. Sometimes taking a step back and looking at where the natural abilities lie is very important. I know grammar school teachers who say they can tell who has been tutored and who hasn't... I care very much about my children's education and spend a lot of time looking at where their abilities are and what would be the best path for them.
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