2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Eleven Plus (11+) in Warwickshire

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Concerned Parent 72
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:55 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by Concerned Parent 72 »

Sally Anne I think you are clutching at straws to say I used capitals in order to shout. If I did use capitals to highlight and focus peoples attention on the important parts of the message then this hardly constitutes shouting. I presume that if I looked at messages on the forums no messages have capitals and have all been deleted?

I have not accused anyone of cheating as my PM's stated all those months ago, but it did not sit comfortably with me that people think its ok to send exam content to people only known via postings on here whatever the best intentions are. I'm sure the current crop of moderators have those best intentions but I think asking for questions to be sent is still wrong prior to the end of 11+ sittings and how can you ensure that all moderators in the future will have the same pure ethos?

We will no doubt disagree on this issue but as you said we all have lives and I'd better get back to mine!
gideon
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:54 pm

2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by gideon »

I think people need to calm down and look things from each other's view.

1. The Warks 11+ can technically be taken during year 7. The number of times this has happened in the past is zero.
2. For users, we do not know who moderators are, whether they have been vetted or met by anyone. We don't know if they belong to a tuition centre. My view, is we can trust them no more or less than anyone else on the forum. (I do not know if a moderator is male of female... one can hide this, in otherwords we have no idea to their identity). Why trust a face-less person?
3. Do they pass content to First Past the Post, to be used for profit? Who knows. Who cares? Some may. (I am not bothered).
4. I would not provide any content directly to a moderator. That's just view and my right to hold such a view.
5. I would suggest when it is decided that content can be posted, people post it on the forum directly, for all to see, then a moderator can collate it on one page, just like KenR and his excellent post. I see no reason why people do not save their data to a document after a test. Many do as they may have other children sitting in later years.

In many aspects, I agree with the gist of what Concerned Parent 72 is saying. (Okay, technically capitals is regarded as shouting, by convention, but this is not relevant to the point made). I agree, do not sent content directly to a moderator - we don't know them.

As for emotive language "cheating", I am not aware of any law stating passing on content is cheating. It may be playing the system. Then again. I fail to understand the logic of using the same test on may occasions - knowing the risks. Some schools play the system by children sitting 15-16 GCSEs to be top of league tables (exam factories). Is this "cheating"? Neither are cheating, but I would suggest neither are fair or honourable tactics, but permitted in law. Human nature involves gaining an advantage, be it tuition or legally avoiding tax. It is up to those in power to stop this, which they cannot ;)

Maybe Sally-Anne or another moderator can decide if content can be posted regarding the Warks forum now. If so, perhaps people who sent in content can post it directly.
Last edited by gideon on Sun May 25, 2014 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gideon
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by gideon »

Optimist wrote:
You are too cynical Gideon. I sent it to Okanagan because sending feedback to the moderator is the appropriate channel. Ps Okanagan has taken the Warks section and made it much more informative than it ever was before.

I understand the frustrations, hence why the content I provided shows, by paper, the topics, numbers of question and times allotted to each section.
Is the information from feedback from your own child?

Didn't Warks County Council (WCC) state: “The test consists of between 200 and 250 questions to be answered in a total of 90 minutes. The volume and nature of questions make it difficult to remember meaningful content and the papers are specifically designed to test a child’s innate intelligence and ability.”

How on earth did your child or any child remember content? Or is this another example of WCC stating nonsense, to justify their stance and using a compromised testing system? Yes, I am highly cynical ;)
rabbie burns
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by rabbie burns »

Why are some people obsessed with collating the content from children's feedback. It is not reliable, the test the following year will be different and as another person said just prepare for the type of test your child will be sitting. Some children barely prepare, some do a little and some do a lot. That's fine but trying to reconstruct the test is to me a bit weird. I thought only those weird tuition centres did that kind of thing. Just a viewpoint so please no one shout at me!! :D
JamesDean
Posts: 1537
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by JamesDean »

All my DS could remember was the subject of the comprehension; individual questions were a blur! Unless you send a child in with the additional instruction to remember as much as you can, I can't see 9/10/11 year olds being a reliable information source ... DS certainly isn't, couldn't even tell you what he has had for lunch each day - and that's far more important than the 11+ to him! :lol:

JD
JamesDean
Posts: 1537
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by JamesDean »

rabbie burns wrote:Why are some people obsessed with collating the content from children's feedback. It is not reliable, the test the following year will be different and as another person said just prepare for the type of test your child will be sitting. Some children barely prepare, some do a little and some do a lot. That's fine but trying to reconstruct the test is to me a bit weird. I thought only those weird tuition centres did that kind of thing. Just a viewpoint so please no one shout at me!! :D
I think its more to glean information for late sitters, Rabbie ...

JD
gideon
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by gideon »

rabbie burns wrote:Why are some people obsessed with collating the content from children's feedback. It is not reliable, the test the following year will be different and as another person said just prepare for the type of test your child will be sitting. Some children barely prepare, some do a little and some do a lot. That's fine but trying to reconstruct the test is to me a bit weird. I thought only those weird tuition centres did that kind of thing. Just a viewpoint so please no one shout at me!! :D

Wow... I am amazed by the comment.

Questions have been reused in tests. Eg Walsall had an identical long maths question as Birmingham some years later. Children understand the type of questions involved and how to tackle them. In fact children have said "I did the question before. I think the dimensions were the same."

How about levelling the playing field so all children have access to preparation material that Durham refuse to supply, so tuition centre children have an advantage?

Durham claim taking 11+ tests in other areas compromises testing. Why do they state this?

Don't forget high scoring children will and do pass content to late sitting friends as they want friends to be at the same school. They are not scared of others beating their score as they know they will be in the top 5% anyway. They have confidence in their ability. Many children do not consider it cheating. It's not unlawful.

"Some children barely prepare?" Do many of these "pass" in Southern Warks? I think this is the minority. From experience parents and children deny the amount of preparation they do so they do not appear pushy. Some parents seem to think self-preparation by a child or DIY preparation is not regarded as tuition or preparation. Of course it is. Even reading is preparation for VR.

Many private school children get 2 hours of homework a night compared to 1 hour a week by the state sector. I know of many children in grammar schools who prepared for 10-14 hours a week yet claimed they hardly did anything. They even denied they were taking the 11+ until they were seen in the exam hall. In case you ask, they do not stuggle in grammar schools. They learnt the need for hard work. Frankly 2 hours a day is no big deal. It leaves enough time for fun. I see no difference in reading a book for 2 hours a day and doing maths for NVR etc for 2 hours.

I do not know many children with high scores who did not prepare. I know children in K.E.S. who are already at GSCE standard in maths in year 7. Clearly they were taught.

The aim is to get the highest score possible and not scrape a qualifying score. This is achieved by preparation. Using past questions is a great way to prepare and this is why tuition centres sensibly recreate questions. (I didn't use paid for tuition. I did it myself!) It's their job and only an incompetent centre would not do this.
JamesDean
Posts: 1537
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by JamesDean »

Yawn ....
gideon
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by gideon »

JamesDean wrote:All my DS could remember was the subject of the comprehension; individual questions were a blur! Unless you send a child in with the additional instruction to remember as much as you can, I can't see 9/10/11 year olds being a reliable information source ... DS certainly isn't, couldn't even tell you what he has had for lunch each day - and that's far more important than the 11+ to him! :lol:
JD
From my experience "intelligent" children can remember content. Even parents on this forum have confirmed their children could remember content. Mine remembered a lot of detail. He obviously paid attention to the questions in the test. May be your son just didn't want to tell you what was on the paper.
kittymum
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: 2013 Warwickshire exam feedback please

Post by kittymum »

gideon wrote:
JamesDean wrote:All my DS could remember was the subject of the comprehension; individual questions were a blur! Unless you send a child in with the additional instruction to remember as much as you can, I can't see 9/10/11 year olds being a reliable information source ... DS certainly isn't, couldn't even tell you what he has had for lunch each day - and that's far more important than the 11+ to him! :lol:
JD
From my experience "intelligent" children can remember content. Even parents on this forum have confirmed their children could remember content. Mine remembered a lot of detail. He obviously paid attention to the questions in the test. May be your son just didn't want to tell you what was on the paper.
But why quiz a 10 yr old about content? My conversation with ds went something like:
Me: "how did it go today ds?"
Ds: "it was ok, some bits were harder then others, but I did my best"
Me: "well done DS"
Ds: "can I go out scootering with *** and ***"

I always feel quizzing them is likely to undermine their confidence and puts extra pressure on a child.
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