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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:34 pm 
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'Leaky pipe' between 1980s grammar schools and university.

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-30128472

Has anything changed since the 1980s grammar schools . Are Grammar schoool Pupils getting places into the Russell Group institutions. Can they compete really with the Independent educated pupils.

Some Key points I took from the article:-

1. Grammar school pupils in the 1980s were no more likely to gain degrees from "elite" universities than comprehensive pupils.
2. Attending a private school was "powerfully predictive of gaining a university degree and especially a degree from an elite institution" - but grammar school pupils showed no advantage in either mainstream universities or at Russell Group institutions.
3. Grammar schools did make a difference to pupils' exam results at 16 "but this did not follow through to university chances. Good O levels/GCSE's but fallen A Level Results.
4. Having a parent with a degree also boosted a pupil's chance of graduating from an elite university (Russell Group institutions).
5. Privately educated pupils were more likely to have parents with degrees: 52%, compared with 31% of grammar school pupils, 14% from comprehensives.
6. Grammar School Heads Association chief executive Barry Sindall said fewer professions had required degrees in the 1980s.

This is an interesting article and worth a read.
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:00 pm 
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I went to a 1980s grammar school. My cohort went off in many different directions following school - Oxbridge, Russell Group, red bricks, polytechnics, management training courses, some even got jobs :shock:

My parents didn't have a CSE between them; very few parents had a degree .... One girl's Dad was a Dr (of Geography) - it took us a while to work out why he didn't work in a hospital!

Very different times compared with the school DS now attends ....

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:20 pm 
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JamesDean wrote:
I went to a 1980s grammar school. My cohort went off in many different directions following school - Oxbridge, Russell Group, red bricks, polytechnics, management training courses, some even got jobs :shock:

My parents didn't have a CSE between them; very few parents had a degree .... One girl's Dad was a Dr (of Geography) - it took us a while to work out why he didn't work in a hospital!

Very different times compared with the school DS now attends ....

JD


Hi JD

Showing my age I am a 1980's child. Went to a Comprehensive, I went to a Russells Group University. Mum a housewife and father a Labourer. Same no education between them. Agreed it is different times.

4. Having a parent with a degree also boosted a pupil's chance of graduating from an elite university (Russell Group institutions). Does it really?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:38 pm 
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I went to a private school which is now one of the top ones (it wasn't then :)). I think almost every girl in my year went to university, and usually established ones, mostly what are now Russell Group. It really wasn't the done thing to go to a poly :D and certainly wasn't encouraged (a friend went to one to do a subject that wasn't available at universities of the 1980s). Pure snobbishness rather than anything else.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:44 pm 
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khanp wrote:
4. Having a parent with a degree also boosted a pupil's chance of graduating from an elite university (Russell Group institutions). Does it really?


Parents' education level is consistently found to be a significant predictor of academic success.

(that is not the same as it being necessary for academic success!)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:45 pm 
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I thought this was a poorly researched article - RG universities were a smaller group then and we are talking 30 years ago!

What's it like now (or since 2000) might be more interesting. Why should RG universites be the aim of everyone?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:01 pm 
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In my day we had UCCA and PCAS I recall. The bright ones applied only on UCCA and the not so bright were strongly encouraged to apply both UCCA and PCAS.

UCCA were for academics and PCAS for those becoming technicians and/or hands on practical vocational type careers. I am generalising I know but this was the way in the early 80's. Of course playground banter was even more cruel and kids made to apply to poly's were given a hard time, this is normal and was playground politics at play. This has been replaced by more modern forms of 'banter'.

RG is a self appointed elitist group of Universities. If nothing else, it is used as a gene pool from which to select graduates for employment. This debate has occurred before recently on this site and is getting quite boring now. Its like the banter we have concerning lawn mowers, Petrol or electric?? Which is the more elitist?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:39 pm 
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drummer wrote:
Parents' education level is consistently found to be a significant predictor of academic success.
(that is not the same as it being necessary for academic success!)

I think its even more precise than that, Drummer, as in its a mother's academic success that is the most important factor in her children's.

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:20 pm 
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JamesDean wrote:
drummer wrote:
Parents' education level is consistently found to be a significant predictor of academic success.
(that is not the same as it being necessary for academic success!)

I think its even more precise than that, Drummer, as in its a mother's academic success that is the most important factor in her children's.

JD



I was going to mention that but there have been some studies including one very recent one that found it was the father's education that correlated most significantly so I felt it was safer to leave it at parents' education level as that is uncontested. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:34 pm 
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drummer wrote:
I was going to mention that but there have been some studies including one very recent one that found it was the father's education that correlated most significantly so I felt it was safer to leave it at parents' education level as that is uncontested. :)

Well DH and met on a course and have identical qualifications, so its no matter to our DC! :lol:

JD


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