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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Hello,
I'm new to this forum. I got my daughter's result back this Friday last. She did reasonably well for someone not coached and just a few months of preparation without a tutor. She scored 181 - which is some way below the AQS.

I didn't even know until the weekend that appeals were possible on the 11+, but now I'm considering what options are available to get her into a grammar - if any?

There are no extenuating circumstances for her score being what it is: no illness, death, plague or pestilence. Her school was judged inadequate about a year ago which possibly had some effect on her development but I can't quantify that as she's consistently been above average in class.

The only excuse that can possibly be set against her is having a dad who doesn't believe that relentless coaching for an exam is necessarily a good way to encourage a love for learning for the rest of her life. I don't begrudge others for believing the opposite. The system is what it is.

Anyway, is it a lost cause? Reading these forums and the spectacular scores others have had (and good luck to each and every one of them) it would seem so, but I'd like to be sure! And if any grounds for appeal/clemency are available when is the time to make the appeal?

Thanks for reading!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:03 pm
Posts: 1380
Hello Confused and welcome!

You won't be able to appeal until March when the school allocations come out, but when they do all the info you will need is here - http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/schoolappeals

I have no idea what the success rates for the grammars in Warks is, but I suspect your appeal will have to be based around your DD's high ability at primary and your reasons for a grammar school being the best environment for her secondary education.

Good luck,

JD


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:30 am
Posts: 2248
confuseddotcom wrote:
Hello,
I'm new to this forum. I got my daughter's result back this Friday last. She did reasonably well for someone not coached and just a few months of preparation without a tutor. She scored 181 - which is some way below the AQS.

I didn't even know until the weekend that appeals were possible on the 11+, but now I'm considering what options are available to get her into a grammar - if any?

There are no extenuating circumstances for her score being what it is: no illness, death, plague or pestilence. Her school was judged inadequate about a year ago which possibly had some effect on her development but I can't quantify that as she's consistently been above average in class.

The only excuse that can possibly be set against her is having a dad who doesn't believe that relentless coaching for an exam is necessarily a good way to encourage a love for learning for the rest of her life. I don't begrudge others for believing the opposite. The system is what it is.

Anyway, is it a lost cause? Reading these forums and the spectacular scores others have had (and good luck to each and every one of them) it would seem so, but I'd like to be sure! And if any grounds for appeal/clemency are available when is the time to make the appeal?

Thanks for reading!


Someone will be able to give you specific information, but with a score of 181 vs an AQS of over 200 in most cases, I suspect an appeal willbe difficult without some pretty striking extenuating circumstances.
I will gently point out, especially as a lot of those who might be able to help you did do coaching, two things
1. Those of us who pay for coaching are highly unlikely to believe in 'relentless coaching being a way to encourage a love of learning' and actually used coaching as a low pressure aid to learning, with not a hint of relentlessness and
2. A few months of preparation at home, is coaching. It's DIY coaching, but it's coaching, tutoring, whatever you like to call it. dIY coaching is extremely effective and many get into GS that way. There are many reasons people choose a professional tutor, far more likely to be to do with time and personality for learning, rather than because DIY doesn't work. We daily see evidence that it does. But it is indeed coaching, and can be relentless too if the parent chooses!

Best of luck in your appeal if you go ahead.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:34 pm
Posts: 930
I'm not in your area but have put myself through the appeal dilemma 3 years ago and DS is now in Yr9 at a GS. I would say you need to do your research- ask the schools involved if they have had successful appeals in the past - even how they respond to this may give you an idea of what you are up against.
The further you are from the qualifying score then the steeper your challenge - you are going to need to explain why your DC should have had a higher score than achieved and provide alternative academic evidence which I suspect would need to be be exceptional and have good reasons for needing a place at that particular school - not just a case of wanting a GS place. I agree with Yamim 151 that the " lack of tutoring" arguement is not likely to be helpful. There is a stack of information in the appeal section of this website that can help you decide what to do. It is a huge thing to put yourself through and very stressful and I can only say look at what evidence you can get together, be realistic and I hope things work out well for your dc what ever you decide.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:47 pm
Posts: 114
I looked at appealing 2 years ago when my DD missed the AQS for AGS by 3. However, looking at the criteria I deduced I could only really appeal if:
1. There was something wrong with the way the test was administered
2. My daughters result was massively out of line with her ability, and I had a vast amount of evidence to back it up.
On this basis I concluded I didn't really have grounds for appeal - my daughter scored within her ability range, albeit at the lower end.

I do know that 2 years ago there were 4 successful appeals for AGS, I think it was less for KES and not sure about Shottery. I heard that most of these were already on the waiting list.

This is just my anecdotal experience - sorry if it doesn't appear more positive. I'd suggest your first step is to talk to your child's school - even though they don't teach to the 11+ test, they should at least know your child's levels which may be a guide - mid to high level 5's across the board would be needed as a minimum I would imagine.

Good luck whatever you decide.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:17 pm
Posts: 15
As I understand it, you can only appeal for a place at a school that has declined you.

So you'd need to apply for schools this week in order of preference.

Say Random Grammar as school 1.
Example High as school 2.

In March, Random Grammar turns you down. Example High offers you a place. You can then appeal for Random Grammar to offer you a place. Maybe you could argue your case if your DD is doing fantastically at school or has just won Child Genius or something. Or between now and March you discover your DD has dyslexia or something that would have given her extra time in the test.

If you put RG and EH the other way around, EH would offer you a place and RG wouldn't look at your application as you had got your first choice. Therefore you couldn't get turned down and you couldn't appeal.

DISCLAIMER: I might be wrong, I am just a first time parent but this is what I understand from websites etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:09 pm
Posts: 215
I thought appeals could be heard at two levels:-

1. You can appeal against your test result.
2. You can appeal against the school you have been allocated.

Each appeal would be heard by different audiences and would go through a different process. I don't have the detail. Check the relevant section in this forum.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:33 pm
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Thank you so much to all of you for your responses and comments.

Particularly take on board the comment from Sherlock1; the 11+ is hugely competitive and my daughter did as well as she could have under the circumstances of her ability, preparation and of course how she performed on the day.

And so I don't believe an appeal on the test itself is going to fly with a shortfall of around 20 from the AQS, and no extenuating circumstances.

On the flip-side (as BoringUserName points out) we have the option of appeal to the school in March IF I put it down as one of the preferences on the application form. I guess that means we have a few months to mull over the strategy of the appeal if I choose to do so at that point.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:55 pm
Posts: 104
Just to add, we spoke to the authority today about paper remarking as we feel something went wrong somewhere as DD's score was totally unexpected.

We were told in no uncertain terms that as the papers are marked by computer with some sort of 'safeguards' there would be no re-examination of test papers by Warks under any circumstances.

I do find this a bit odd, if a child went back over some questions and changed their answers for better ones (we told her not to leave blanks even if unsure) but didn't rub out the other answers fully how is a computer supposed to tell and not disregard the question as having two answers. Its just one aspect I would have liked to eliminate but its not going to happen.

That just leaves appeals to the school in March. (if needed).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 4597
Location: Essex
BoringUserName wrote:
As I understand it, you can only appeal for a place at a school that has declined you.

So you'd need to apply for schools this week in order of preference.

Say Random Grammar as school 1.
Example High as school 2.

In March, Random Grammar turns you down. Example High offers you a place. You can then appeal for Random Grammar to offer you a place. Maybe you could argue your case if your DD is doing fantastically at school or has just won Child Genius or something. Or between now and March you discover your DD has dyslexia or something that would have given her extra time in the test.

If you put RG and EH the other way around, EH would offer you a place and RG wouldn't look at your application as you had got your first choice. Therefore you couldn't get turned down and you couldn't appeal.

DISCLAIMER: I might be wrong, I am just a first time parent but this is what I understand from websites etc.


Actually, your application to both schools is considered by the school; neither school has any idea where you ranked it on you CAF. In the 'real world' situation, the response from Random Grammar would be, 'No, this person is not qualified for a place here', but even if your child did qualify, if you placed RG below a school for which s/he also qualified, your LEA would allocate the school which you told them that you wanted more than you wanted RG.

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