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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:37 pm 
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I have just been informed by Admissions that 780 children sat the 11 plus for the Eastern area of Warwickshire...no idea what the qualifying score would be though.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:04 pm 
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Just a few more than last year then (739). Presumably the qualifying standardised score will be about the same as last year - similar number of children going for the same number of places. How the raw scores compare will depend on the difficulty of the test; if it was much harder (as rumours imply) it would be possible to get a high standardised score with a relatively low raw score (relative to last year, not to others this year!)

Someone told me yesterday that children will be allowed to retake if they left the exam after feeling ill and that the papers for children sitting later will be different. ???? Anyone know?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:48 am 
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Charlotte67 wrote:
Just a few more than last year then (739). Presumably the qualifying standardised score will be about the same as last year - similar number of children going for the same number of places. How the raw scores compare will depend on the difficulty of the test; if it was much harder (as rumours imply) it would be possible to get a high standardised score with a relatively low raw score (relative to last year, not to others this year!)

Someone told me yesterday that children will be allowed to retake if they left the exam after feeling ill and that the papers for children sitting later will be different. ???? Anyone know?

Hi Charlotte67, That sounds reasonable enough.There must be provision for those candidates taken ill to resit. I know of at least one at Harris School, but not the exact details. I will try to find out.
Many contributors seem to know a great deal more than I do about 'the process'. For instance are the raw scores wheighted for distance from the locus of the priority area or is it just age standardisation? When can one reasonably expect to telephone and be given the standardised scores? Is it true that , quoting the freedom of information act if necessary, one can ask for the tables created for the standardisation?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:58 pm 
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Hi Sassie'sDad,

Last year I gathered the following information by parent pester power (do bear in mind though that last years tests were administered by NFER, CEM method may be different):

To calculate standardised scores children were only measured against those in their area (in our case it would have been the 739 in the Eastern area) and within that they are only measured against the raw scores achieved by other children with the same birth month.

I still think that there must be something more sophisticated going on, but this was what I was told.

Without any further refinement this would mean that of the 218 places offered, 18 would come from each month...

I'm sure someone will come along & correct this as it can't really be this simple!

My daughter and Ed's Mum's son (Ed!!) very conveniently had the same marks in both papers (I know, SPOOKY!!). He has a September birthday and she was born in June. My DD's standardised score was 243 and Ed's was 230. This is not "marks being taken off" or "added"; it is a mathmatical process and, as I understand it, there are no tables - certainly none like those available for SAT standardisation.

Even if they do use the same method of age standardisation this year, the actual figures will be different as there is a different cohort. There really is no second guessing I'm afraid - it is a case of wait & see.

Regarding when the scores are available - Not until the date they have given you (early March again??). I have not heard of anyone having them earlier.

It was a difficult 5 months. I know it's hard but the best thing to do is to formulate a plan B just incase and then try to forget about the whole darn business! :lol: :lol:

Edited to add that last year the later test (for those out of catchment and any who had been ill, etc) was the same test. You can't standardise raw scores over 2 different tests. I agree that provision will need to be made for children who left the exam part way through but I'm not sure how they could. Perhaps someone from Birmingham will know. :?:

Edited again as I didn't read your question properly :oops: . Distance was not taken into consideration within the standardisation process. Those children outside of the priority area were not offered places in the first round but received a score consistant with their performance in the tests.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:33 pm 
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Charlotte67 wrote:
My daughter and Ed's Mum's son (Ed!!) very conveniently had the same marks in both papers (I know, SPOOKY!!). He has a September birthday and she was born in June. My DD's standardised score was 243 and Ed's was 230.

I have seen some posts that suggest boy/girl also comes into the standardisation process. Charlotte, did you find out anything to back that up or is it a myth? It didn't seem to help Ed much in this situation, but do you think that if mini-Charlotte and Ed had been born in the same month and got the same raw score, Ed may have been the one given the higher standardised score?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:47 pm 
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BadDad, I've never heard of boy/girl standardisation but in an area with co-educational schools this might make sense. A concern though might be equal opportunities; in our area they go to great pains to ensure that the girls' and boys' schools offer the same number of places, even though the boys' school can fit quite a few more in.

Interestingly, whilst the passmark was the same for both, the waiting list mark was HIGHER for the boys...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Hi All

I think I can clarify a few points:-

Quote:
I still think that there must be something more sophisticated going on, but this was what I was told.

Without any further refinement this would mean that of the 218 places offered, 18 would come from each month...

I'm sure someone will come along & correct this as it can't really be this simple!


It won't work this way, the Age Standardisation process takes account of age differences by minor adjustments but not by allocating places on a month by month basis.

Quote:
I have seen some posts that suggest boy/girl also comes into the standardisation process. Charlotte, did you find out anything to back that up or is it a myth?


This is a myth, the test is designed by the Univ of Durham to try to make it neutral to gender. The same question gets asked by parents at KE 5-Ways (Co-Ed Grammar) - the pass mix for the KE Foundation exams works out fairly evenly between boys and girls, it just so happens that more boys pass for KE 5-Ways because there are more Girls paces in the system at other KE schools.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:15 am 
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Thanks KenR, Once more we are all better informed thanks to a very helpful post!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:31 pm 
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I know the test is being administered by CEM this year but I thought you might like to see this post from last year:

Charlotte67 wrote:
I got the following answer from NFER re my questions:

Thank you for your kind comments about our website. I am pleased that you have found it useful. With regard to the questions that you raised about the 11+ here are the answers

1) Regarding age standardisation: Because each exam is individually standardised does this mean that you have a roughly equal number of children from each month "passing"? If so this does not seem fair on children born in, say, April who would normally get in but in one particular year have very strong competition. Is no historical data used at all? The standardisation is based only on the group of children that take the paper. As the age standardisation is based on when the children were born to the nearest completed month all candidates have the same chance of obtaining a place if they score above the pass mark and there is a place available for them. For example if a school has 120 places they will select up to 120 children who are at the top of the scale being used. Historical data is not meaningful in this context since new tests are specially constructed each year.

2) In Warwickshire, some children sat the test in the morning, some in the afternoon and some up to 4 weeks later! Do you use the same papers? If yes, does this not allow room for cheating? I am not aware as to whether Warwickshire uses additional papers for late tested pupils. It is quite common for larger LAs for logistical reasons to test on different days. The tests are kept secure and are not made available to pupils to take home, so it is unlikely that cheating could occur.

I hope that this information helps

Best wishes


Janet


Frankly, NO! I don't think she answered either of my questions; do you?


BTW I had confirmation from the LA that the same papers were used for the later tests last year.

I know, I really should get a life!

Charlotte


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:59 pm 
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Don't forget that a child taking the same test a month later will be a month older and therefore will have a slightly different Age Standardisation compared to a child of exactly the same age who took the test on the main date. Might be for example 1 mark worse off.

Age Standardisation is always based on the Age in years and months on the date of the exam.

I should add that B/Ham KE Foundation also has a 3rd 11+ exam date sometime in Feb/March for those children who have moved from other authorities in to the area. the test is normally the same test. However they are treated as late applications (accordingly to the LEA and Foundation policies). Again what this means is that they will be a few months older.

Not sure what Wawickshire does in this situation.


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