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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Location: kent
Hello all,
I have been searching the net for info on the rumours I have heard in the playground (!) that Cameron intends to get abolish grammar schools...I seem to be finding conflicting info...The rumour I heard was that it was discussed on question time the other week....
Would love to hear from anyone who watched it or knows more about it...thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:28 pm 
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I suspect he is just ignoring them . TBH there are going to be far bigger problems to handle.



Quote:
Mr Cameron admitted: ‘I will accept that I got it wrong in the row on grammar schools.’
He said the 164 remaining grammar schools are ‘excellent schools’ but stressed that his priority has been to show that the Tories want to improve the quality of all state schools.
‘Did I use the right language? No. Did I upset people in a way I shouldn’t? Yes. I do accept that in the language I used I didn’t show enough sensitivity to people who’d been to grammar schools, who liked grammar schools, who thought they were great agents of social mobility.
‘But we tried for two elections to win the argument on grammar school selection and we failed. I don’t want to waste time on an argument we’re not going to win.’




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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:37 pm 
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The MP in Trafford (Graham Brady) resigned a couple of years ago as shadow schools minister because Cameron would not give 100% support to protecting grammar schools.

That said, there has been no policy announcements regarding abolishing grammar schools. Based on the Tory policy of giving schools choice, I can not see how this would fit with forcing particular types of schools to close.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:12 am 
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Michael Gove (Shadow Education) said, when asked on Question Time, that no, they wouldn't support new grammars (wrt the "Hey, let's start our own school up right here" part of their policy). The smugness on his face as he said this, the assumption that all the audience would chuckle away and go "Grammar schools! tchah! crazy idea" made me go right off him.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:39 am 
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Location: Maidstone
Can someone please explain to me.

Why do people hate grammar school? If they are successful at doing what they are supposed to do then why cant we have more instead of trying something new like building our own schools?

Is it because grammars arent for every child? Surely its this falseness we are creating that all our kids are bright and clever. There will always be brighter kids than others and its a fact of life so I cant understand that argument. The biggest issue with most comps is discipline and if they can get on top of this, I am sure those kids who want to learn will get an equal opportunity and the schools can retain good teachers too.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:21 am 
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I think people hate grammars because they are only for a small percentage of children and that is seen as elitist. Also the secondary option for the less academic has usually been rubbish - which isn't fair.
Grammars aren't elitist - they promote social mobility (though less than they used to).
But anything that doesn't promote absolute equality is deemed elitist. Probably the same reason some parents don't like the More Able/gifted and talented 'label', if their child is not given it.
I think the idea that all can be given equal opportunity by all doing the same thing has gone on for decades now and got us nowhere.
If people are going to be allowed to set up their own school what will the restrictions be, no grammar/academic school, no to faith schools, yes to schools that let everyone qualify, yes to technical schools, yes to vocational schools???
What's wrong with a variety of choice?


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:34 am 
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sherry_d wrote:
Can someone please explain to me.

Why do people hate grammar school? Is it because grammars arent for every child?

I think it is the idea that at the age of 10/11 you have been deemed selective that is the problem for some people. Both my DCs attend grammar school but I can see the argument that every child is entilted to a good education. If you put the lower 75 % into non-grammar then the schools don't really have a chance as you say with behaviour etc. Good well balanced schools for all would be best - though having said that if my DCs weren't in grammar schools I wouldn't be happy with the schools that are currently available in my area.

I do think that grammar schools give some children who may possibly not have the opportunities because of where they live the chance to have a good education in a grammar school if they are bright enough. The only problem now it seems is that people who can afford to are tutoring their children to get the places that the bright, but possibly poor, can't afford to be tutored for. Education, it's always going to be a difficult area with everyone having their own opinion :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:38 am 
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I don't think GSs are elitist but they do promote a two tiered system (especially in areas where there are a lot of GSs eg Kent) based on how well a child can perform on a certain day or how clued up parents are with regards to tutoring.

If you are going to have selection for the brightest say 25% of kids then why should the rest just be taught in one large pot? Surely to make it fair you should then have selection all the way down, so maybe have a 4 tier education system rather than 2. This is what comps were meant to do, tier children to their individual ability for every subject.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:39 am 
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ausvic, I was typing as you posted.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:57 am 
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SSM wrote:
I don't think GSs are elitist but they do promote a two tiered system (especially in areas where there are a lot of GSs eg Kent) based on how well a child can perform on a certain day or how clued up parents are with regards to tutoring.

If you are going to have selection for the brightest say 25% of kids then why should the rest just be taught in one large pot? Surely to make it fair you should then have selection all the way down, so maybe have a 4 tier education system rather than 2. This is what comps were meant to do, tier children to their individual ability for every subject.


Yes grammars as they are are part of a two-tier system, but this need not be so. The system need not be one system as such in that all go for 11+ and failures go over there, but be a system of a variety of schools so children with different abilities are catered for. All comes down to cost I guess as it is easier to have one system for all. We have different types of schools across different counties however and I don't see why government of any colour should outlaw a particular type if that's what is wanted. We decide and politicians serve us!


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