Student Protest Marches - a couple of points!

[Chelmsford mum]

I always watch these threads and think hmmmmmm if I post it might be inflammatory but ...oh well.

Firstly regarding the coverage... a million years ago -well the early 90s I was a student and I went on "Grants not loans "demos. I would(still) be hugely , overall supportive of the police but all I can say is, that demo changed my perception of media coverage for EVER. Coverage was reversed (don't believe me if you don't want to) to depict the students as the protagonists where as the(perhaps understandably) police did the provactive moves in the situation I was in.I know this won't be a popular post, but I am pro authority and it shook me - it really did.

Secondly to say, in a very poor family , I was the only 1 of 4 who scraped through University with loans but mostly supported as tuition fees were paid.If I chose now, I would not go - I could not go ! I hope I have in my role as teacher, inspired some of the best and brightest, but some of them the poorest, to gain an education.I wouldn't necessarily encourage that now.
The cost is too great for the ordinary person.Education belongs only to the rich once more....
Same old Conservatives taking care of their own.......running for cover now on this website

[KeepCool]

[quote="Chelmsford mum"]I always watch these threads and think hmmmmmm if I post it might be inflammatory but ...oh well.

But with over 1000 posts to your name, it hasn't stopped you

[Chelmsford mum]

I always watch these threads and think hmmmmmm if I post it might be inflammatory but ...oh well.

But with over 1000 posts to your name, it hasn't stopped you

Actually...I have been extremely quiet recently you know! Sometimes I just can't help myself though....sorry

[turtleglos]

I had an interesting chat with ds1 today while watching the news coverage.Ds1 started by saying that he agreed with the protesters and thought that it was unfair that students were being asked to fund their own education. I pointed out that the country has little money in the pot(it is all going to pay off debt etc),and asked him where the money to pay the extra £6k per pupil is going to continue to come from,hospitals,police,defence,schools etc. I asked how much he thought he would learn if he only had 1 teacher in his class of 40. He considered this and decided that it was only fair that students should pay their own way. We also discussed the lack of any real argument that these bright,intelligent,articulate young people had on their big signs along with the difference between protesting and general vandalism. I have not heard any of these student spokespeople offering up any real,workable alternative, until I do I feel that they are jumping on a bandwagon they have no real care or understanding for.
Personally I have been surprised not to see any water cannons used as these are a great deterrent to many other groups behaving in a violent and agressive manner(football hooligans spring to mind).

[T12ACY]

There possibly is no workable alternative. But I do not support the double whammy approach. Further back in the thread was the observation that graduates would have a greater disposable income each month because the repayments were changing. They are, but not for the better IMO. Martin Lewis regularly preaches that a debt with higher interest and lower repayments is like a ball and chain. It will saddle my DC with debt for several years longer, and with accumulative interest cost much more!!!!!

That said I am trying (still) to encourage DS1 to seriously consider what he would be walking away from should he change his mind at the final hour and not go on to uni. Potentially his degree could be more valuable to him if others decide not to in swathes. The uni's could actually suffer massive losses in student numbers, and where would that leave them? Being forced to close

The violence is not acceptable, but neither is lying and cheating. Yes Labour were possibly worse for getting us in to the situation we are now in, and I don't disagree that there needs to be some changes. On a brighter note I could find myself out of a job in April because of cuts to the LA budgets, and if I do I am very tempted to fail to find a job because then DS's would get their further education for free.....

[pheasantchick]

Chelmsford mum - inflammatory posts are good - it sparks debate.

T12ACY - hope you don't loose your job.

Turtleglos - your discussions with DS has made me reconsider my automtic views that uini fees are too expensive. As others have said, one of the problems now is that there are too many degrees with too many students and people expect to go to uni, rather than the clever top two classes as in my day. P'haps its time for a audit of uni courses, whats needed and whats frivolous, what leads to jobs and careers, etc.

[rosered100]

The uni's could actually suffer massive losses in student numbers, and where would that leave them? Being forced to close

They would have to work as any other business in a marketplace does- reduce their prices, raise the quality of their product. Supply & demand. Unfortunately most 'academics' have never worked in the real world & dont know how to cope with it, they think there is an endless pot of money. 'Govt should pay for this or that'- it's not the Govt's money - it's ours.
I cant understand why all the courses need to be 3 years long, I'm sure there are a lot that could be put into 2 years. Is it because the longer it is, the more weight is added to the qualification? Maybe doing more than 2 lectures a week cuts into party time too much

[Susan]

Just a very quick post as someone who works at a University in a non-academic post but with a private sector background.
The impact of the combination of raising tuition fees and reduction in teaching grants is a source of constant discussion. It could create a perfect storm of student numbers collapsing in 2012 (an expected event) with associated collapse in funding from fees and reduction in teaching grants.
If an University closes it has a huge impact on the local economy, there are many employees who are not well-paid academics; impact on local housing profiles etc etc. Whilst I can see there is an argument that one less University in London may not be too bad, some of the Universities which could close are in more vulnerable areas of the country.
Cuts are likely to be made in non-academic departments, which will impact on the whole student experience, actually they already are - its just going to get worse. Combine this with more demanding students because of the level of fees they are paying and its going to be very challenging.
Of course, no University is going to publicly state where its cuts will be made, so future students will find it hard to compare one University with another.
Susan

[T12ACY]

Actually I had only ever looked at the more.... academic courses. What I do agree with is the unnecessary and utterly pointless courses studying the likes of 'David Beckham' of all things That, and similar, are a waste of time and Tax Payers money! An audit of courses and their value would make better sense at this stage, except someone would probably launch a legal challenge to accuse the powers that be of an infringement of their human right to study a peanut

And I also agree the Uni's should be run like a business and look to set fees on a 'supply and demand' basis, and find ways to cut their own costs etc. Everyone else is faced with the same challenges and it isn't a surprise that someone who is paying 3 times as much for a degree will be expecting more. There shouldn't be an endless supply of money from the Tax Payer, I am not happy to subsidise students who opt to study as a 'life choice' over studying alongside working where possible.

As for my comment about losing my job. It is a very real possibility as the current contract runs out in March 2011 and the tender has been conveniently delayed...... However, what I wouldn't do is opt to avoid work. It just isn't in my nature. Lead by example in our house, which is why DS1 has worked since he was 16 and intends to while continuing his studies at Uni. I don't consider we have been lucky, just determined and without considering any job is beneath us have managed to always find work to support ourselves (and pay tax to support others).

[KeepCool]

I always watch these threads and think hmmmmmm if I post it might be inflammatory but ...oh well.

But with over 1000 posts to your name, it hasn't stopped you

Actually...I have been extremely quiet recently you know! Sometimes I just can't help myself though....sorry

Please don't apologise - I just couldn't resist - warped sense of humour