Discussion re SATS / Teachers / employers etc (from warks)

[Mr Benn]

Here's a classic - our Middle School sent us a letter asking us to buy books for our child to help her with her SATS.

So they want the parents to pay for books that will help the school as much as the pupils

I have no issue with helping my child , but in this instance she is cakewalking the test SATS they have been given anyway.

[Optimist]

Re BoltBlue

I agree with most of his/her posting - and disagree with a little as I also agree with the last line line of BookLady's posting..

However, I do believe BoltBlue is allowed to express an opinion - now matter how provocative. However, being provative also requires the poster to provide a reasoned and cogent argument.


Edited, based on BoltBlue's subsequent posting

[BoltBlue]

Here's a classic - our Middle School sent us a letter asking us to buy books for our child to help her with her SATS.

So they want the parents to pay for books that will help the school as much as the pupils

I have no issue with helping my child , but in this instance she is cakewalking the test SATS they have been given anyway.

Ditto... £7.50 for 3 sets of books. As good as forced to buy and my year 4 child could answer the questions in the Maths book.
Then the teacher admitted.... it is aimed for level 4. Homework is set from the books every day, marked at school and rammed down their throats. Why should parents pay for text books? £7.50 is not much, but it is the principle.

Every single day they do mental maths, and this week they do their second mock tests.
They have done 9 past SATS papers already (which were all done last year for 11+ prep!)

I disagree that SATS is for the school. It may be sold that way, but it is used to assess the standard of the children as well. Don't believe the hype. Every year my childrens' school do optional SATS tests and they are "streamed" according to results.

Are GCSEs and "A" levels for the school? Do people really believe SATS are to assess a school and not children? I don't believe it.

As for teachers, why are they allowed to teach non-standard English?
Why are they allowed to teach "haitch" instead of "aitch"?
Check with Oxford and Cambridge. "haitch" is not standard English.
It is nothing to do with accent. It is just ignorance.
Ask they why they don't say "FEF", "LEL" or "MEM".
Children believe "haitch" is correct and "aitch" is slang because of the "huh" sound. How pathetic!
Soon these "dumb" teachers will accept children saying "I don't know nothing"
just because it is commonly spoken.
A teacher's job is to teach.
They must teach correctly.
Children should be taught correct standard English.
Non-standard English is simply unacceptable.
If a child wants to speak incorrectly, that is his/her choice.
But, they must not be taught incorrectly.
Standards must not be lowered any further.

[BoltBlue]

Goodness - who rattled your cage Boltblue?

In my opinion of course schools should be able and willing to teach all children - from the least able to the most able! Children who pass the 11+ still deserve to have a good year 5 and 6 and to continue to progress. I do not think schools should spend all their time in Y 6 pulling up the weaker students to 4B - as others have said SATs are a measure of the school, not the individual - unlike the other exams. A bit of practice is fine - alongside other stuff too.
And of course they should also be able to do the fun stuff - I think it is offensive for you to denegrate anything other than pure academics to 'arty farty fun stuff'!! Life is about balance, and, although I have 2 clever DD's - one of whom has just passed the 11+, I would hate for them not to be able to do any art, drama, dance, sport etc because they were busy having SATs 'rammed down their throats!!' - that would make me take them out of the school!

Are you angry with your own childs school? Have you spoken to them? Like Herman I think you cannot tar all teachers, and parents with one brush!

My child also passed the 11+ with marks high enough for all grammar schools in Warks (and bored in year 5 and 6, and it's my fault as I self-tutored). But my child is not clever. I just tutored. IMHO 11+ is no indication of intelligence. Tutor an average child and (s)he will pass. Don't tutor and (s)he will not. May be my definition of clever is different! The child also undertakes sports activities 4 days a week.

School plays.... interested if given a main part, if not, a total waste of time. Can someone explain the point of a child coming on stage for 30 seconds, not saying more than one sentence and wasting 3 weeks watching others rehearse? Pointless "arty farty" nonsense. Limited benefit and limited fun for the majority of children.

It is the same menality of football teams thinking it is acceptable for a child to be sidelined as a substitute and is expected to waste 2-3 hours on Sundays to play 10 minutes football.

[Optimist]

BoltBlue

Where does this anger with teachers come from? In all profressions there are good and bad professionals. With teachers it is no different, but I think your rant and labelling of all teachers as "dumb" is inappropriate. The vast majority of teachers are fantastic.

You seem to have an axe to grind with teachers; perhaps based on personal experience. Chill!!!

[fed up]

Well, at least we have someone on here giving honest opinions. Keep it up BoltBlue.

[BoltBlue]

BoltBlue

You seem to have an axe to grind with teachers; perhaps based on personal experience. Chill!!!

I didn't say all teachers are "dumb". I suggested those who teach "haitch" are dumb, as are those who do not accept there are different methods do undertake maths, and children should be permitted to use which ever method they wish, as long as they understand what they are doing and why, and of course get the correct answer. The should not be forced to use one method over another. If a year 4 child can multiply in columns, why force them to use the grid method?

Another example:

20
12 x
---- .....Both are correct. Why force a child to use the second method
200 .....when they used the first method for 2 years?
. 40 .....(Ignore . and forget that this is best done mentally)
----
240


20 x
12
-----
. 40
200
----
240


Halfway between two numbers... allow them to add numbers together and half!

Percentages... allow them to set out as fractions and cancel.

27% of 50... allow them to reverse as 50% of 27 = 13.5 = mental maths!
90% of teachers just didn't get this! "Thick?" I think so.

I believe the vast majority of teachers are actually very poor. Some are excellent, but few and far between.

[DenDe]

I believe the vast majority of teachers are actually very poor. Some are excellent, but few and far between.

I would be interested to know how many teachers you are basing your opinion on

The should not be forced to use one method over another. If a year 4 child can multiply in columns, why force them to use the grid method?

.....because they have to follow the Government enforced National Curriculum with all its rigidity and lack of freedom... which brings us nicely back to the theme of the thread which is SATs.

[BoltBlue]

"I would be interested to know how many teachers you are basing your opinion on"

Not more than 100 teachers, from personal experience: a very small sample. But talking to other parents who are prepared to be honest, they agree the vast majority are very poor. Many lack basic knowledge in English and Maths. "Haitch" is a classic example as is "he gave 110% effort". Can you ever give more that 100% effort? What does percentage mean?

You may find numerous surveys also show this. Of course not 90%, that is just the indication of the standards I expect.

I disagree as I believe SATS allows any method. The SATS papers award marks for correct answers and sometimes for any working out. They do not dictate the method. I have been through the last 11 years of maths papers and marking schemes as my child did them all for 11+ practice and is now forced to do them by the school.

[DenDe]

I think you misunderstood me.

The teaching of maths is dictated by the National Curriculum.

The National Curriculum is rigid and inflexible and enforced by the government...

SATs are inflicted by the Government. They are not welcomed by schools but endured.

Luckily, to balance your views on teachers, my view, and that of many of my friends, is that there are many excellent teachers and that teachers in general do a good job in difficult conditions!