Do you understand AV?

[WP]

Not if no-one gets 50% first time, and its everyone's second choice,it's very plausible .

Here's a thought, though - would anyone actually put an extremist party as their second choice? If your views are extreme enough to vote for them at all, wouldn't you put them first?

Exactly. The BNP is everyone's second choice in some constituency ahead of the other mainstream parties? I find that incredible.

[Looking for help]

UKIP is the party I'm most worried about

[stevew61]

Do you understand AV?

I think I'm getting the hang of it.


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[marigold]

That will be a " Yes " from me then.

[rachag]

What if say, red tribe voters - to maximise chances against blue tribe - put red at number one and then filled in preferences 2 3 4 etc with smaller tribes, so that they could put blue tribe last. Would this only help the minority cause or would it help to keep the party they really didn't want out? Would the red tribe voters be better off just putting red as number 1 and leave the rest blank?

[WP]

What if say, red tribe voters - to maximise chances against blue tribe - put red at number one and then filled in preferences 2 3 4 etc with smaller tribes, so that they could put blue tribe last. Would this only help the minority cause or would it help to keep the party they really didn't want out? Would the red tribe voters be better off just putting red as number 1 and leave the rest blank?

Suppose we have first preferences:

25% red
35% yellow
40% blue

so the reds will be eliminated. Then:

If all the reds all have yellow as their second preference, that will push yellow up to 60% and they win.

If all the reds have no second preference, they no longer count. Blue have more than half of the votes that remain, so they win.

Bottom line: under AV, just say what you mean. If you really would rather have yellow than blue, put them as your second preference.

[Pushy Dad]

It has been argued that AV benefits extremist groups. That is only true if you believe that they enjoy the support of the majority of the local electorate. Imagine the following under the current First Past the Post system.

Extremist Party 35% of the vote
Labour 30%
Tories 25%
Liberals 10%

Under the current system the Extremist Party would win.

In a AV system one would hopefully be able to assume that the Labour voter would have, as his 2nd choice, anyone but the Extremist Party. Under AV the moderate voters would be in a position to gang up on the extremist candidate.

There is very little evidence that AV lets in extreme candidates. The main question voters should ask is whether you want a consensus government or a decisive government?

Under the current system, until recently, one party is in charge. If you don't like their record then you vote them out at the next general election. With AV, governments tend to be coalitions where parties have to compromise and seek consensus. As a result, policies tend to move towards the centre as opposed to the right or the left.

Which style of government you prefer is up to you but I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about how AV may benefit extremist parties.

[Looking for help]

In a AV system one would hopefully be able to assume that the Labour voter would have, as his 2nd choice, anyone but the Extremist Party.

I am quite sure a Labour voter would have as his second choice anyone but a Conservative candidate, and vice versa.

That leaves second choice for eh let me think...the Green Party, UKIP , BNP independents etc, and to be fair many people will not choose an extremist party as their second choice, but that is how these parties can grow in number. At the moment they have absolutely no chance. In fact as the Lib Dems have fallen in most people's estimation due to their ridiculous behaviour since partnering up with the Tories, they probably won't do as well as they had hoped with AV

[sherry_d]

I just think AV = Nick Clegg and I dont think I need to know more.

[WP]

I am quite sure a Labour voter would have as his second choice anyone but a Conservative candidate, and vice versa.

That leaves second choice for eh let me think...the Green Party, UKIP , BNP independents etc, and to be fair many people will not choose an extremist party as their second choice, but that is how these parties can grow in number.

I rather doubt that many Labour voters will put the BNP ahead of the Conservatives (or Conservative voters put them ahead of Labour for that matter), nor many for UKIP. I'd call the Greens single-issue, but hardly extremist (and they have an MP under the current system).