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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:26 am 
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Throughout dd's 11+ process I have been wondering..why is there no requirement to achieve at least basic levels before children move on to high school? And thereafter? After all in other things like swimming one is only sent up to the next level if the child completes 8/10 tasks set etc. Maths and English or 'numeracy' and 'reading' are far more important.
Surely at high school level the teacher needs some kind of uniformity? plus it also assumes that children are incapable of achieving this. I think the current level 4 can be achieved by all of them,if only they were told they would not go to high school otherwise.there are some things kids don't ever do voluntarily- I for one never remember doing more work than that set by the teacher even though I spent far less time on it than my mates.
It would also probably put an end to the pressures of eleven plus- too young an age IMO. If schools have a certain standard of intake we can happily send our childen to the nearest school.
It would probably also lead to less disruptive classes when kids actually understand what the teacher is talking about.
There is no pass or fail, just that one has to know certain basics before attempting to learn advance topics. I feel the children are being seriously disadvantaged.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:33 am 
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I suppose there are some children who simply can't get the basics . In USA I think they end up repeating "grades" , here some kids may not want to go to High School and their parents may not be bothered either.

Not sure which is best really - suppose having a list of basic levels to be met is one thing, whether they can carry on working when they get to senior school is another!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:39 am 
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sgcmum wrote:
I think the current level 4 can be achieved by all of them,if only they were told they would not go to high school otherwise.

I know several hard working secondary school age children with supportive and concerned parents who still haven't achieved level 4 at the age of 13 or 14 owing to health problems or special educational needs. Where would you put these children? They are too physically and emotionally mature to remain at primary school.
sgcmum wrote:
It would also probably put an end to the pressures of eleven plus- too young an age IMO.

So instead of parents choosing to put pressure on the most able children you would have the schools put pressure on the least able instead?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:39 am 
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Such children are more an exception than the rule.that's why I think we have sen,special needs etc. I am talking about the average kid. And yes I was thinking of the u.s.a where repeating grades is done. My point is not many will need to.
Brings it round cleanly to parental responsibility, I guess.


Last edited by sgcmum on Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:42 am 
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Ppmum,
Crossed posts.
Special needs should be exactly that,special needs. They will form an exception.
I am against pressure of any sort on any child. But sometimes they don't do things unless it's compulsory in some way.
All I am saying is instead of age based classes without any need to show progress,if that was added to the mix,the children would be better served


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:51 am 
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Probably find that "having" to achieve some target, while eminently desirable, breaches their human rights :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:07 am 
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Anyone know what percentage of children failing to acheive level 4s in Key Stage 2 are on School Action, School Action Plus or have a statement of Special Needs?

Also - setting the standard for entry to High School at a Level is not going to turn every school into a suitable environment for a Grammar school child. DD was a level 4 across the board at the end of year 3 - and didn't get into the Grammar school. 87% of the children in DD's class got a level 4 or above in Maths - but (looking at the statistics for the schools they have gone on to) only 50% will go on to get a grade C or above at GCSE.

It is a real problem - but the solution is not to hold children back. An unmotivated child will leave school at 16 - if they routinely kept back for failing they could be leaving without having been offered the opportunity to learn vital parts of the school curriculum.

Also - one bad year - child falls in with a bad group, gets a bad dose of teen hormones, whatever - and they are affected for life. I've seen children held back at Independant schools and I have yet to see a truly positive outcome.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:10 am 
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It would end up being quite low wouldn't it? Even though children repeat years in the states, the educational level in each grade is behind ours isn't it? Or certainly it used to be - maybe we've modelled ourselves on them so many years now we match up.

I don't see it taking away the 11+ or pressures therefrom. The 11+ is about selecting the top 25% or higher. This could never be a universal threshold for moving up a year.

It's a really tricky one, and I suppose the answer lies in the bell curve that the IQ of the population falls into - a normal distribution. There are always going to be a fixed proportion of children who are certain number of years ahead or behind average in their abilities so if you were going to go for a "target" that suited 98% of the population (ie. excluding severe special needs) you'd be going for something that the top end could have achieved years beforehand.

What do you all keep in your handbags?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:12 am 
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Anyone know what percentage of children failing to acheive level 4s in Key Stage 2 are on School Action, School Action Plus or have a statement of Special Needs? PP asked this.

Much better question than the handbag one. Anyone know the answer?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:20 am 
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I am looking that up at the moment.
My concern is the total absence of requirement,which most kids can do,but don't at the moment because they don't have to.whether holding them back or having them streamed at high school is the next step.
The grammar school kid,as ppmum says,will/might be bored. But I think the current streaming/gifted and talented might cater to that.

P.s.any strange words,blame it on iPad.


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