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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:46 pm 
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I found some interesting statistics published by the govt this week on GCSE grades based on KS2 results in English and Maths in case anyone is interested. The document is on the downside to early entry but if you scroll to page 16 and 17 they give a breakdown of what student achieve in GCSE Maths and English based on KS2 results.

There is about 5% chance of a child achieving A/ A* in Maths if there were level 4 and it goes up to nearly 50% if they achieved level 5. Its pretty much the same in English too.

https://www.education.gov.uk/publicatio ... -GCSEs.pdf

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Schools get this information in their RAISE online report every year. Ofsted is interested in how many pupils make 'expected progress' which is three levels ie from level 4 to C+ or level 5 to B+.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:57 pm 
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My problem with the expected progress Guess55 is how can a child ever progress beyond what is expected of them if they are constantly given work to aim for a C grade. In primary after KS1 results if you get a 2 then teacher expect you to be a 4 and give you likewise work. I am sure its similar in sec school too that level 4 will be a C grade. Teachers like us to believe that they do move kids around but I saw very little of that. Why should it be that prescriptive?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Yes but to get 'good' or better from Ofsted pupils have to make better than expected progress.

So for good progress a level 2b should become at least level 4a .... etc


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Last edited by Belinda on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:35 pm 
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You're right its the bright that are mainly losing out the most of out it. On page 7 they show 28% of early takers get A*/B compared to 41% who take exams in year 11. On the A/A* grade its 14% for early takers compared to 22% who take GCSEs in year 11. Hopefully more schools will discourage their kids taking early GCSEs esp if they are interested in more competitive universities

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:43 pm 
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sherry_d - as I have posted on another thread this is not new information. Although this publication is new others e.g. ACME report and QCA/HMI/National Strategies reports have said exactly the same thing for several years now.

I'm not sure why schools are still doing this.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:50 pm 
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I think the tide is turning, isn't it? At DCs' school the top two sets do maths in year 11 but also do statistics GCSE. They also used to do some of their science GCSE in year 9 and geography GCSE in year 10. Both of these have been abandoned for this year's year 10s.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:35 am 
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Sherry_d said:

Quote:
Quote:
My problem with the expected progress Guess55 is how can a child ever progress beyond what is expected of them if they are constantly given work to aim for a C grade. In primary after KS1 results if you get a 2 then teacher expect you to be a 4 and give you likewise work. I am sure its similar in sec school too that level 4 will be a C grade. Teachers like us to believe that they do move kids around but I saw very little of that. Why should it be that prescriptive?


This is my bugbear too. I really didn't realise this kind of thing happened until my first daughter was part way through KS1 - not even KS2 - and it shocked me. They group children pretty early on in year 1 - I'm not sure how they do it as high EYFS scores don't seem in my children's case to make a difference as to which group they relegate them to - and classwork and homework is "differentiated" accordingly. Differentiated means that only the top group gets the full works. If the group is "right" for your child it's OK, if it's not it's not.

I had a very tough job conversing with school when first child was relegated to the "average" group in year 2 and was being given all the pared down work at school and at home. She was upset by it and I couldn't understand what was going on. Eventually I got her out of that group, and if the school is now being truthful with me she got 3s at end KS2 and is expected to get 5s at end of KS2.

Now got similar problem with second child at start of year 1. She's very bright by anyone's measure. I despair. Making the same mistake twice I did not even click that she was not in the top groups until after parents' evening. Smelled a rat at parents' eve when I asked what was expected of her by end of year 1 ...... told "maybe above average" - whatever that means. Finally found the group lists tucked away on the very busy classroom walls. Have to start all over again now with this one. Aaagh.

Any tips on how to persuade teachers to reconsider their views without having to end up in full-scale conflict gratefully accepted.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:40 am 
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Hi there,
This is a difficult one as a year 1 teacher, yes your quite right, 'most' year 1 units have tables/groups/ list call it what you like based on ability- The baseline being the profile points and your quite correct in saying these assessments are very broad. However as as starting point in year 1 as it's a transition from play based learning to 'formal learning' its important to start with this information. But the groups from my experience are very fluid : different for each subject and if children were exceeding/ failing to meet their group and/ or individual expectations they should be move to a different group. In KS1 Ofsted do look at the progress and more weighting is given if children make good to very good progress. Its if the school can evidence this progress.

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