All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
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Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
It does make sense when explained like that guest21 BUT I am not sure we should begin to pigeon hole the 'low' 'middle' and 'high' ability children when they start school.
Over the years I've seen so many children get incrementally smarter through exposure to 'difficult' concepts. I speak to so many who say how marvelous it is that their child is on course for a B in maths at GCSE as they are 'middle' or 'low' ability as deemed by their earlier key stage result. They seem surprised when I say 'why not an A or A*'? Our education system almost bar codes children in a way and it often means teachers see the cohort in this way, this 'system' creates order out of chaos and when you teach large classes and come into contact with many different pupils each day it's human nature.
Interesting Vasu that in your situation to be 'bright' you have to be good at maths?
Scarlett not worried about it so much more interested.
Over the years I've seen so many children get incrementally smarter through exposure to 'difficult' concepts. I speak to so many who say how marvelous it is that their child is on course for a B in maths at GCSE as they are 'middle' or 'low' ability as deemed by their earlier key stage result. They seem surprised when I say 'why not an A or A*'? Our education system almost bar codes children in a way and it often means teachers see the cohort in this way, this 'system' creates order out of chaos and when you teach large classes and come into contact with many different pupils each day it's human nature.
Interesting Vasu that in your situation to be 'bright' you have to be good at maths?
Scarlett not worried about it so much more interested.
Last edited by Cranleigh on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
No I did not say that being bright is being good in maths. i was saying there is a maths program in our school for brilliant students but that is it. School should have program with diverse subject not just maths. My son is in this group but I would not say neither would he that maths is his forte.
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Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
I thought that G&T was supposed to be in all State schools. What differs is how they run it. Money always seems to be an issue. If differentiation was used properly, there'd be no need for it. There's a lot of lazy teaching to the middle out there. I remember one former colleague saying it wasn't possible to have more than three ability groups in any given classroom and that (funnily enough) she'd always had exactly three ability groups in every class she'd taught. No matter the size of class and no matter the spread of abilities. Depending on the subject and individual class, I've found it necessary to have up to five ability groups. As said previously, it's difficult to teach each child individually but a general category of top/middle/bottom across the board is often too simplistic. It also seems to be that these labels crystallize and become self-fulfilling prophecies.
Edited for typo.
Edited for typo.
Last edited by First-timer on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
Vasu, I meant that your school has a programme for the bright/gifted and they have chosen to make it a maths club. As your school sees it then, to be bright is to be good at maths/maths has the highest status?
Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
Unfortunately so,Cranleigh. That is my beef with the school. 
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.Having one child makes you a parent; having two you are a referee.
Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
Can everyone really achieve an A though Cranleigh ? I'm thinking of some children who will be doing well to spell their name correctly .Are you thinking of your own background whereas you worked hard over the years and did exceed all expectations and more ? Were your parents instrumental in this ?
I think re the maths club only the children who were good at it would want to go to a club ( is this after school ?)
Plus it doesn't really matter what groups children are placed, they all know who is bright and who isn't and form their own opinions. It was the other children who made my DS2 feel like the dimmest boy in the world.
I think re the maths club only the children who were good at it would want to go to a club ( is this after school ?)
Plus it doesn't really matter what groups children are placed, they all know who is bright and who isn't and form their own opinions. It was the other children who made my DS2 feel like the dimmest boy in the world.Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
First-timer your approach is really encouraging.
If you spend any length of time on TES you'll see some fairly entrenched views about high, middle and low ability groups/teaching. I am not blaming teachers, I linked to an article on here a while ago that suggested most think these arbitrary 'abilities' to be set and factual. The 'average' at KS1 were doing well to get a level 4 at KS2 etc.
Perhaps I am reading too much into this (of course everyone is delighted when a child makes unexpected progress and increases the school's value added score) but the psychology around ability is an often ignored, potentially important and interesting subject I think.
If you spend any length of time on TES you'll see some fairly entrenched views about high, middle and low ability groups/teaching. I am not blaming teachers, I linked to an article on here a while ago that suggested most think these arbitrary 'abilities' to be set and factual. The 'average' at KS1 were doing well to get a level 4 at KS2 etc.
Perhaps I am reading too much into this (of course everyone is delighted when a child makes unexpected progress and increases the school's value added score) but the psychology around ability is an often ignored, potentially important and interesting subject I think.
Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
Sadly Scarlett there are some with cognitive impairments etc who may well permanently struggle (even then I believe they can do more than many many assume).
Not everyone is cut out for high level academic study etc (including me). I do believe a child with an 'average intellect' (whatever that means) could gain top grades in GCSEs. You could teach them to the test for starters. They could also learn, slowly, incrementally, one block on top of the other. Connections would begin to form over time.
I assumed I was permanently weak in some subject areas. It's only since I changed the way I see things that I've realised I just need to look at how I can get there, how to tweak things to my preferred way of learning and look at what the examiner is looking for etc.
Not everyone is cut out for high level academic study etc (including me). I do believe a child with an 'average intellect' (whatever that means) could gain top grades in GCSEs. You could teach them to the test for starters. They could also learn, slowly, incrementally, one block on top of the other. Connections would begin to form over time.
I assumed I was permanently weak in some subject areas. It's only since I changed the way I see things that I've realised I just need to look at how I can get there, how to tweak things to my preferred way of learning and look at what the examiner is looking for etc.
Last edited by Cranleigh on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
No this math's group, not clubscarlett wrote: I think re the maths club only the children who were good at it would want to go to a club ( is this after school ?)
is in school hours and takes place at every maths lesson. The kids in this group go to another classroom while other kids do maths in the class. Just to add, Scarlet, I am sorry if I am sounding smug by reiterating that my DS is smart.
As much I know, my son has never put a child down because he was not in the top group. Infact the Maths group kids are constantly ridiculed as the"nerd bunch". My son says to them,"it is what I am, a nerd, can't change that!" I feel so bad after reading that your son was being treated that way. Believe me, we are on the same side, Scarlett.
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Re: All primary pupils should be enriched not just G&T?
Unfortunately, I think it does matter which group a child is put into. The groups do not do the same work and so a child in an inappropriate group will either struggle or miss out on being stretched or visiting new topics. Some teachers are very good about keeping their groups fluid but others keep the same groups for the whole year.
My own DD has been affected by this. She has been in the middle Maths group forever. I came to realise that Maths was being badly taught at the school and so took up the slack at home. I have seen a huge improvement in her performance. She has seen a huge improvement in her performance. Her classmates ask her why she is not at the top table. They have a scheme whereby they mark off competencies reached in Maths. She is the furthest ahead in the class under this scheme. Children from the top table come to her for help with work that DD is not even allowed to do. The Maths sets have not been changed since the start of the previous academic year. As previously stated, children do have their own idea of the pecking order and DD is frustrated as she feels she has been consigned to the wrong table. The class teacher has not changed the groups because she is still getting to know the class (a term and a half into the year)! I tell DD that what happens in school is unimportant and that it is her work at home that counts. How awful is that?
My own DD has been affected by this. She has been in the middle Maths group forever. I came to realise that Maths was being badly taught at the school and so took up the slack at home. I have seen a huge improvement in her performance. She has seen a huge improvement in her performance. Her classmates ask her why she is not at the top table. They have a scheme whereby they mark off competencies reached in Maths. She is the furthest ahead in the class under this scheme. Children from the top table come to her for help with work that DD is not even allowed to do. The Maths sets have not been changed since the start of the previous academic year. As previously stated, children do have their own idea of the pecking order and DD is frustrated as she feels she has been consigned to the wrong table. The class teacher has not changed the groups because she is still getting to know the class (a term and a half into the year)! I tell DD that what happens in school is unimportant and that it is her work at home that counts. How awful is that?
