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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:02 pm
Posts: 297
Location: S E London
Hi. I was at a music festival on Saturday where the security people were running a wand around everyone before letting them in. When my 14 year old son arrived at the front of the queue the security guy asked him to stretch out his arms and he then patted my son's body pretty much all over. As far as I am aware he did not ask his permission and he certainly didn't ask mine. It wasn't until afterwards that I wondered whether he had the right to do this. I know he should ask permission but I don't know what the situation is with children.

We are going to some Olympic events and I would like to know what the security guys can and can't do.

I've spent a frustrating evening online, without finding anything, and wondered whether anyone on here has any idea.

many thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:12 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Berkshire
Our only experience is at airports and they seem to be pretty thorough. Braces and belts seem to set off all sorts of alarms, causing more thorough searches. I expect if you refuse, entry will be refused, so it's up to you....if you want in, you'll have to go with the flow. I've never felt sufficiently righteous to question searches.....I'm assuming generally they're for the good of us all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
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We have often had the pat down searches at airports and I think the kids probably have had that too - I don't think you have much choice and I suspect with the olympics the security will be so tight that any refusal or questioning will result in you being turned away and they will be able to do whatever they think is needed in the way of checking.

One very good reason for not going!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 8:30 am
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2childmum wrote:
Hi. I was at a music festival on Saturday where the security people were running a wand around everyone before letting them in. When my 14 year old son arrived at the front of the queue the security guy asked him to stretch out his arms and he then patted my son's body pretty much all over. As far as I am aware he did not ask his permission and he certainly didn't ask mine.



It'll almost certainly say on the tickets that you consent to being searched (it even says that on tickets for the Royal Shakespeare Theatre). Don't like it? Don't go in. Your presenting yourself at the gate shows your consent to the terms and conditions. What did you want the guard to do?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:02 pm
Posts: 297
Location: S E London
Hi. I think from your answers I must have come across as more cross about this than I actually am. I simply wondered if anybody knew what the guidelines were. I know that the police have a right to search you, but have to say what for and have to ask permission. I also know that the guy should have asked at least for my son's permission, and wondered if he should have asked for mine. My son was the only person who was touched like this - everyone else had a wand waved around them.

There must be guidelines for security guards somewhere - just wondered if anyone know where.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:45 am 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 8:30 am
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2childmum wrote:
We are going to some Olympic events and I would like to know what the security guys can and can't do.


In that particular case, you've already consented by purchasing the tickets.

Quote:
19.4 Security inspections

19.4.1 LOCOG may conduct security searches to ensure safety at a Session.

19.4.2 A Ticket Holder who rejects a security search or refuses to comply with rules and security notices published by LOCOG will be required immediately to leave the Venue without refund to the Ticket Holder or Purchaser.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:02 pm
Posts: 297
Location: S E London
Depends how you define security search. Everyone else had a wand waved around them. My son had hands run all over his body without being asked. Rather a different experience.

I find it odd that my son's trumpet teacher, whom we have known for several years, and who is CRB checked, is advised that he should not even touch my son at all, even to correct where his elbow is, yet an unknown man can run his hands all over my son without even telling him what he is planning on doing.

Strange world we live in.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5922
I can see why you feel uneasy if your son was the only one touched. :? The comments below relate to the second part of your last post, not the security incident.

I think it is total madness that a brass teacher can't touch a child (ours does, I've seen him) and that we have to sign a disclaimer to allow our son's diving teacher to touch him (which I have no issues with at all). I am by nature rather a tactile person and have always touched children I teach - it sort of just happens that if a small child is crying and I am the only adult there, my instinct is to get down and hug it; equally I touch the arms of some of my older ones and during a very nasty child protection incident last year also hugged one of my year 7 girls. It's only afterwards that a little voice tells me maybe it was unwise if someone is feeling litigious, but goodness me, why become a teacher of you don't feel empathy, and sometimes people just do need a friendly touch. One of my own children regularly sat on his teacher's knee. Personally I think we have really lost something now with the obsession with keeping children safe from se xual predators...OH recently lifted a little girl down from a climbing frame when she was screaming with fear and begging to be got down. Afterwards he said he could have lost his job and reputation if anyone had taken that the wrong way.

As with most things, a middle way is sensible, and I almost think that we have now taken away our ability to react naturally to things, with a hyper-cautious attitude on the one hand and an over-officious one on the other.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Location: Reading
absolutely agree


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:02 pm
Posts: 297
Location: S E London
I agree too. My son's trumpet teacher does sometimes touch him if need be, but he always asks first and knows that I'm ok with it. At my daughter's primary school I am pleased that the staff will always hug my daughter back if she hugs them - she is very tactile. I would almost go as far as to say that not hugging a young child in distress, or leaving a frightened child on a climbing frame is more damaging to the child than touching them.

This situation with my son was different, though. I fully understand the need for tight security (which didn't work anyway - when I sat down to eat at a picnic bench with my daughter the people sat opposite proceeded to roll up something illegal and smoke it right in front of us) but there must be some guidelines somewhere as to what is and is not allowed, even if the tickets do say that by buying them we consent to security checks. What if they wanted to do a full intimate body search - should I just stand by and let them? Still haven't found any guidelines yet - that's why I came on here, to see if anyone could point me in the right direction. Not to be got at!


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