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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:47 pm 
What do you mean remember MMR Sayed? There are many of us who do not feel the case has been batted into the long grass. And until the medical profession is willing to look critically and objectively at its two holy cows of vaccinations and antibiotics, many of us will take much of what they say with a pinch of salt. Just look at the meteoric rise in allergies and immune system malfunctions in the last twenty years. And yet research into the causes seem to cover everything bar these two untouchables, considered by many doctors I know as medicine's supreme achievements.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:42 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Tamworth
The MMR scandal, Dr Wakefield linked MMR with autism.
With regards to antibiotics, it's not the fault of the doctor if push patients come in with common cold (acute viral infection) and demand antibiotic or even mild bacterial infections - by the way this is based in sitting in GP consultations as well as reading patients’ notes. Whether this issue is to do with education or our consumerist culture, something needs to be done.
Yes, doctors are also to blame however, the Hippocratic Oath (the updated version read at graduation ceremonies) and GMC guidelines does say how a doctor should always act to benefit the patient. The 4 ethical principles of non-maleficence, beneficence, justice and autonomy also do play a part from what we have been taught so far. So is a doctor to give the antibiotic or vaccine? Which are better for society, a pandemic of X infectious disease or mass vaccination and a future risk of an allergy that is not life threatening? The general pubic unfortunately don’t have to spend 100’s of hours reading, writing essays and discussing ethical scenarios…though I would welcome it so people can understand such decisions.
Oh, it’s not the doctors per se, it’s the multi-billion pound drug companies as they research and produce the vaccines and antibiotics. Much like our government covers up national and international issues. It’s no benefit to neither of them.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:30 pm 
I'm afraid it's not just the patients asking for antibiotics. The doctors prescribed my children antibiotics every time they were ill, even though I was reluctant to let them have so many. I was even told I was endangering my children by not giving it to them (they usually had colds, as you say). In fact my son's immune system collapsed at 11 months after a constant onslaught of antibiotics - for no real illness I might add. The doctors even made him have his multitude of vaccinations as a tiny baby whilst he was on antibiotics. It was a disgrace. My friends' children were also drowned in antibiotics by their GPs.

As for vaccinations, how many are really necessary in a healthy and wealthy society. I gather they want to bring one for chicken pox now. Why? What's so bad about chicken pox? As for overloading 8 week old infants with 6 or more vaccines - it's madness. In japan, I'm told infants get nothing till they are two.

With regard to the drug companies, why are GPs so ready to accept their perks and presents?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:42 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Tamworth
Medical training has changed over the last half century; I am already being made aware about the ethical issues surrounding drug Company gifts et cetera, to doctors; however it not as simple as one would hope. It’s not the doctors it’s the DoH, the government being lobbied by the big pharmaceutical companies.

Well at least your GP gave you/your child something, we have recently had new GP's in our local surgery...shocking, and they seem to be the other extreme of what you describe. Last year, I had a lump on my back which I was told was benign, for 2 weeks I couldn't lie on my back or even sit down. With an impending uni interview, after arguing with the GP to do something, it turned out to be an abscess, it was drained and I got prescribed strong antibiotics and it soon cleared up.
Unfortunately, doctors have succumb to pressure of consumeristic model, an extreme considering not long ago the paternalistic Parson’s et al model of doctor-patient behaviour was dominant in the profession. Patient autonomy is important, and any treatment options should have been fully discussed before any decisions were made. If I did that, I would get a red cross in my OSCE.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:05 pm 
We are now seriously off topic

I agree guest, I have split this topic on anbiotics from the WIFI debate, thankyou

Patricia


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:58 am 
Hello Sayed, are you the same who has a brother about to qualify as a doctor, and a sister who wants to go to Camphill but can't as there was a mix up with application form? Also, you are a first year medical student?

What is he status on your appeal?


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:20 am 
Quote:
The doctors prescribed my children antibiotics every time they were ill, even though I was reluctant to let them have so many. I was even told I was endangering my children by not giving it to them (they usually had colds, as you say). In fact my son's immune system collapsed at 11 months after a constant onslaught of antibiotics - for no real illness I might add.



Can I ask why you were taking your children to the doctor if they only had a cold and 'no real illness'? You can't really have it both ways. Perhaps the excess of antibiotics was a combination of over-enthusiastic doctors and over-anxious parents?

Geoffrey[/quote]


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
Posts: 8113
Geoffrey wrote:
Quote:
The doctors prescribed my children antibiotics every time they were ill, even though I was reluctant to let them have so many. I was even told I was endangering my children by not giving it to them (they usually had colds, as you say). In fact my son's immune system collapsed at 11 months after a constant onslaught of antibiotics - for no real illness I might add.



Can I ask why you were taking your children to the doctor if they only had a cold and 'no real illness'? You can't really have it both ways. Perhaps the excess of antibiotics was a combination of over-enthusiastic doctors and over-anxious parents?

Geoffrey
[/quote]

Agreed
signed "sleepy out of hours doc at the end of a shift......"


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:30 pm 
Because, Geoffrey, that's what you do if you're a first time mum and your baby has a temperature for a few days or is crying a lot. By the time my children were toddlers, I'd sometimes wait a week before going to the doctor's and then I would find myself accused by the GP for being an irresponsible parent for waiting so long (even though we're still in the general "cold" arena). A few years later I learnt to ignore the GPs' prescriptions for amoxycillin "just to be on the safe side". I realized that the safe side meant the doctors' backs, not my child's - or the community's- wellbeing. I must have thrown away dozens of unused antibiotic prescriptions in the last 15 years. But by then I had learnt to trust my own judgement - not something new mothers can do.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Guest7 wrote:

Quote:
I gather they want to bring one for chicken pox now. Why? What's so bad about chicken pox?


This always makes me rather cross. Chickenpox is just as much of a life-threatening disease as Measles, Mumps, Rubella and all the rest.

I never had chicken pox as a child. I caught it as an adult, and it was only because my GP was willing to blow a large chunk of his prescription budget on fancy drugs for me that I avoided being hospitalised with the illness. As it was, it is the worst illness I have ever had. I spent 5 days in bed on the edge of consciousness, unable to swallow because of the excruciating pain of the spots inside my mouth, throat and right down to my lungs. I lost 9lbs in weight and took a month to fully recover.

One of my children was hospitalised when he caught chicken pox - on intravenous antibiotics for an infected lymph gland for 3 days. If he had not been treated promptly he could have developed septicaemia.

Chicken pox can cause severe foetal damage in the first 3 months of pregnancy, often before a woman even realises that she is pregnant. An elderly person can be killed by a dose of chicken pox.

THAT is what is so bad about chicken pox. The vaccination should be made available in this country, as it has been in the USA for many years. If you want to opt out of it for your child and risk any of the above, it is your choice. If you do, and your child catches chicken pox, please don't expose them to anyone else until they are no longer infectious unless that person knows for certain that they have already had the illness.

Sally-Anne


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