Should I Say Something ?
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Re: Should I Say Something ?
I would dearly like a rest too 
DD teacher is also going on about her writing. With both of them it seems only to be an issue because there is such a big gap between that and maths / reading. Surely you can't be great at everything? 
DD teacher is also going on about her writing. With both of them it seems only to be an issue because there is such a big gap between that and maths / reading. Surely you can't be great at everything? Re: Should I Say Something ?
My DDs weakness area is writing too, she is already level 5 in reading and maths at the start of year 6 and should get level 6 in maths, possibly reading as well.
Writing wise, she may get a 5.
However we seem to have the opposite problem to you.
Parents evening was just before half term and the day after we got DDs 11+ results. Teacher knew she had done well.
We mentioned that writing was her weak spot and knew she needed to work on it, he looked bemused. It was a case of why should we be concerned, our DD had just done well enough to be reasonably sure of a GS place.
I think removing the writing element form the externally marked Sats may work in her favour, as the punctuation, spelling, grammar is all there. (So she will do fine on the new test) When she puts her mind to it she can write interesting stuff, given time. She basically falls down when she has to write something in a timeframe. Either she writes a great story, but the spelling, punctuation etc fall apart. Or the story itself is dire, but the english itself is fine.
Writing wise, she may get a 5.
However we seem to have the opposite problem to you.
Parents evening was just before half term and the day after we got DDs 11+ results. Teacher knew she had done well.
We mentioned that writing was her weak spot and knew she needed to work on it, he looked bemused. It was a case of why should we be concerned, our DD had just done well enough to be reasonably sure of a GS place.
I think removing the writing element form the externally marked Sats may work in her favour, as the punctuation, spelling, grammar is all there. (So she will do fine on the new test) When she puts her mind to it she can write interesting stuff, given time. She basically falls down when she has to write something in a timeframe. Either she writes a great story, but the spelling, punctuation etc fall apart. Or the story itself is dire, but the english itself is fine.
Re: Should I Say Something ?
It's the time frame which causes problems here too. Not sure how I'm going to change DD writing, as every story she writes has to be about me. Even if it's a non fiction piece about elephants, I appear. ( no comments please. )
Re: Should I Say Something ?
Thats possibly not a bad thing. One of the suggestions I've read, probably on is forum, was to build up a bank of characters that they can use in their stories. They are then not having to think too hard about the characters they want in their story. Its even easier if its someone real.scarlett wrote:It's the time frame which causes problems here too. Not sure how I'm going to change DD writing, as every story she writes has to be about me. Even if it's a non fiction piece about elephants, I appear. ( no comments please. )
I think I've resigned myself to never being having a famous novelist as a daughter. One thing the teacher did say was as DD was the daughter of two engineers he was surprised she could string two sentences together.
Re: Should I Say Something ?
Writing results at KS2 are all lower than maths and reading nationally. Levels are disappearing from KS2 probably, and there is not compulsory test now where a child has to do a particular writing task in a particular amount of time. Our schools do not seem to have realised this.
Don't get diverted from your 11plus goal. Hopefully all that genre writing at the age of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 will disappear at some point too and children will be able to write about how their Mummy is a heffalump and how Mummy and Daddy argue all day every day and lock up the children in a cupboard if they try to interrupt.
Don't get diverted from your 11plus goal. Hopefully all that genre writing at the age of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 will disappear at some point too and children will be able to write about how their Mummy is a heffalump and how Mummy and Daddy argue all day every day and lock up the children in a cupboard if they try to interrupt.
Re: Should I Say Something ?
Hmm sounds like your dd's stories must keep the staff entertained at lunch time. 
Re: Should I Say Something ?
Scarlett, trust your instincts. Let DS2 relax a little. Like Scary, I ignored requests from DCs' primary school to revise for SATs. 
I took mine out of school for a couple of days in the Spring of Year 6 to visit Colchester Zoo and Howletts Wild Animal Park.
I'm resisting the urge to comment on you cropping up in your DD's stories about elephants.
I took mine out of school for a couple of days in the Spring of Year 6 to visit Colchester Zoo and Howletts Wild Animal Park. I'm resisting the urge to comment on you cropping up in your DD's stories about elephants.
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fatbananas
- Posts: 1411
- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:03 pm
Re: Should I Say Something ?
In a way, this is related to the thread I began a couple of days' ago, where you helpfully talked about equations etc: if you have x and y you will have the correct z essay. Why is it so difficult to have this 'checklist' more widely available, so that DC know what they are supposed to include? AND to have several chances at writing certain types of writing eg, my DS did one newspaper report last year, in year 3. He's just done another in year 4. I suspect the next time he gets a chance will be in year 5. How can the necessary ingredients for a particular type of writing be bedded in if you only do one a year?
There also seems to be too much emphasis on producing an A grade piece of work, rather than doing something then going back and adding something, then going back and adding the next ingredient etc. It's too scary for a DC to think they might 'fail' at the writing task because they are unsure of what's required and they only get one attempt at it.
I think your DS's teacher needs to provide something a little more constructive, or let one thing slide - at school - to enable a little more concentration on it - at school (not at home, as your teacher and my DS's teacher have suggested).
Sorry for ranting
. This subject pushes all my many buttons 
There also seems to be too much emphasis on producing an A grade piece of work, rather than doing something then going back and adding something, then going back and adding the next ingredient etc. It's too scary for a DC to think they might 'fail' at the writing task because they are unsure of what's required and they only get one attempt at it.
I think your DS's teacher needs to provide something a little more constructive, or let one thing slide - at school - to enable a little more concentration on it - at school (not at home, as your teacher and my DS's teacher have suggested).
Sorry for ranting
. This subject pushes all my many buttons Seize the day ... before it seizes you.
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neveragain*
- Posts: 580
- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:05 am
Re: Should I Say Something ?
Just to add my two pennies worth.....a little story which I hope will offer hope!
My youngest Ds, now year 7, always had a huge disparity between his writing and his reading and maths. His writing was awful, nonsensical often, and as little as he could get away with. He was top table for literacy as his reading age so high.
Also, his speaking and listening was great. He would tell me stories verbally that were Thrilling. I'd lend him my iPod to film himself telling them, to help him to see he had the vocabulary etc inside him and to raise his self esteem. I always said, one day you'll find this easier, and then it will come pouring out of you in waves as I know it's all inside you.
This year, in year 7, term one, he is getting level 7's regularly for his writing.
No extra support, no tuition, just waiting for maturity to come. And a great enthusiastic secondary school teacher.
In year 5 he was a low 4 for writing.
It's not a race, they all develop at different times and we all know that but when schools are pushing for SATS results and the child sitting next to ours is writing reams and ours is managing a poor paragraph it is hard to hold on to. One of the joys of having older children now is hindsight.......and realising it will all come together at some point, u less of course there are obstacles to learning, which the school should be able to identify if indeed parents haven't already.
Taping stories, filming them had really helped my DS to hold on to his confidence. Just a thought.
My youngest Ds, now year 7, always had a huge disparity between his writing and his reading and maths. His writing was awful, nonsensical often, and as little as he could get away with. He was top table for literacy as his reading age so high.
Also, his speaking and listening was great. He would tell me stories verbally that were Thrilling. I'd lend him my iPod to film himself telling them, to help him to see he had the vocabulary etc inside him and to raise his self esteem. I always said, one day you'll find this easier, and then it will come pouring out of you in waves as I know it's all inside you.
This year, in year 7, term one, he is getting level 7's regularly for his writing.
No extra support, no tuition, just waiting for maturity to come. And a great enthusiastic secondary school teacher.
In year 5 he was a low 4 for writing.
It's not a race, they all develop at different times and we all know that but when schools are pushing for SATS results and the child sitting next to ours is writing reams and ours is managing a poor paragraph it is hard to hold on to. One of the joys of having older children now is hindsight.......and realising it will all come together at some point, u less of course there are obstacles to learning, which the school should be able to identify if indeed parents haven't already.
Taping stories, filming them had really helped my DS to hold on to his confidence. Just a thought.
Re: Should I Say Something ?
I agree. I also think it is do with the problem that Fatbananas is hinting it. This week we write a newspaper story, next week some instructions. the week after a mystery etc etc. There's no chance to appreciate one another's attempts, change one's own, write another one etc etc. This starts at age 6 or less in my experience. It is not representative of the true creative writing experience - maybe more akin to a journalist writing short pieces to a short deadline, or a functional letter being written to a short deadline at work.
My DD2 used to dictate fantastic stories to me at nursery school and early reception. Once she started having to write something that the teacher expected, without it really being that clear what the teacher expected, it has all dried up at school. I remember a time with DD1 when every sentence started with "then" because they had been told to use connectives, so she picked the first one off the list and used it repeatedly as that way the teacher's requirements were instantly met. The comment at the bottom was "good use of connectives." She couldn't quite understand why the next time she did a piece of writing homework at home I suggested she didn't start every sentence with "then".
When the holidays come and she fancies it, I'm hoping she will dictate me some interesting stuff again which doesn't have to be about something the teacher wants writing this week.
I think that teachers were quite strait-jacketed in the past with the genre writing, and the ways they had to assess writing, and preparing children for an externally assessed piece of writing written under time constraints. However the strait jackets seem to be have been loosened now to a certain extent, but it's taking a few years for teachers to change I think.
The same types of writing crop up again and again right up to GCSE. The good thing is the Letts revision guide make it very clear what is needed, whereas at primary school it does seem in my experience to be a bit of a mystery to the pupils and parents. Equally, by secondary age a higher percentage of children will just be able to mimic a particular style of writing without really having to think about it, so the job gets easier so long as they haven't been completely turned off writing at primary school.
I would not do any extra writing at home unless your child really wants to. Presumably the teacher sets writing homework anyhow. Things that might contribute to good writing in the longer term could be helpful that sink in unnoticed, but otherwise, I still can't work out, with all day every day at school why sufficient writing wouldn't be going on. The teacher could always send pieces of work home that were started in class but need embellishing and editing if he / she feels that insufficient effort is being made in class.
My DD2 used to dictate fantastic stories to me at nursery school and early reception. Once she started having to write something that the teacher expected, without it really being that clear what the teacher expected, it has all dried up at school. I remember a time with DD1 when every sentence started with "then" because they had been told to use connectives, so she picked the first one off the list and used it repeatedly as that way the teacher's requirements were instantly met. The comment at the bottom was "good use of connectives." She couldn't quite understand why the next time she did a piece of writing homework at home I suggested she didn't start every sentence with "then".
When the holidays come and she fancies it, I'm hoping she will dictate me some interesting stuff again which doesn't have to be about something the teacher wants writing this week.
I think that teachers were quite strait-jacketed in the past with the genre writing, and the ways they had to assess writing, and preparing children for an externally assessed piece of writing written under time constraints. However the strait jackets seem to be have been loosened now to a certain extent, but it's taking a few years for teachers to change I think.
The same types of writing crop up again and again right up to GCSE. The good thing is the Letts revision guide make it very clear what is needed, whereas at primary school it does seem in my experience to be a bit of a mystery to the pupils and parents. Equally, by secondary age a higher percentage of children will just be able to mimic a particular style of writing without really having to think about it, so the job gets easier so long as they haven't been completely turned off writing at primary school.
I would not do any extra writing at home unless your child really wants to. Presumably the teacher sets writing homework anyhow. Things that might contribute to good writing in the longer term could be helpful that sink in unnoticed, but otherwise, I still can't work out, with all day every day at school why sufficient writing wouldn't be going on. The teacher could always send pieces of work home that were started in class but need embellishing and editing if he / she feels that insufficient effort is being made in class.