Private Tutoring at GS??
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countrymum
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Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
Thanks so much for sharing everyone, really interesting, and appreciate it. Ha ha scary mum I'm one of those 'H's too 
Not at all a number 1 fan of selective education for various reasons (wont bore) but happy to wave off my DD to one this year, just know is the best environment for HER and HER wellbeing is paramount. What my moralistic (is that a real word??) view on it all is not as important. So hands up I'm a hypocrite too.
So would it perhaps be the school that would give a gentle (or not so gentle) nudge that a DC could do with a little extra help in a specific area? It is interesting the thought that with many of these high achieving GS's with amazing results how many of the students are actually having some extra guidance.
I remember being a little envious of any children having a 'private tutor' when I was at school it all sounded rather posh and something that only happened in the 'olden days'
Not at all a number 1 fan of selective education for various reasons (wont bore) but happy to wave off my DD to one this year, just know is the best environment for HER and HER wellbeing is paramount. What my moralistic (is that a real word??) view on it all is not as important. So hands up I'm a hypocrite too. So would it perhaps be the school that would give a gentle (or not so gentle) nudge that a DC could do with a little extra help in a specific area? It is interesting the thought that with many of these high achieving GS's with amazing results how many of the students are actually having some extra guidance.
I remember being a little envious of any children having a 'private tutor' when I was at school it all sounded rather posh and something that only happened in the 'olden days'
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
We know of at least 3 Kendrick girls (all in different years) that attend private tuition, all maths, one of which does maths, science and english!
If we felt any of ours needed any extra help, we wouldn't hesitate in looking up a decent tutor.
If we felt any of ours needed any extra help, we wouldn't hesitate in looking up a decent tutor.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
I am a passionate supporter of comprehensive education. Which we don't have in this country and never will. My children all go to grammar schools - if this makes me a hypocrite then I hold my hand up (not for the first time on this forum) and actually do feel a little uncomfortable with it now, but I don't believe in making principles out of my children who weren't old enough to make an ideological decision at the age of 10.Not at all a number 1 fan of selective education for various reasons (wont bore) but happy to wave off my DD to one this year, just know is the best environment for HER and HER wellbeing is paramount. What my moralistic (is that a real word??) view on it all is not as important. So hands up I'm a hypocrite too.
I have tutored children from grammar schools and also independent schools. I won't do it now unless there has been some kind of illness or personal issue which has caused them to fall behind, rather than, as I am afraid has been the case, they have just not worked especially hard until it is almost too late so mum and dad get the cheque book out.
I think that it is inevitable that there will be a stratospheric rise in tutoring over the coming years. I think the independent school heads bleating on about it are the biggest hypocrites of all as they tacitly encourage it, seeking as they do to take the 'best' 4 year olds or whatever. I agree with magwich* about 'in your face' children - this seems to be very much valued as 'confidence' these days. The chap in the Times at least admitted that selective schooling is partly to blame. I suppose every parent wants 'the best' for their child; what really makes me despair is why so many people seem to think 'the best' is necessarily only defined in terms of academic prowess. I know some people get vicarious pleasure from boasting of their children's attainments, but at what point does that stop? Is it 'worse' to say 'my son is happily married with 2 children and a job at the local branch of Tesco' than it is to say 'my son is happily married with 2 children and a job as a city lawyer'? Does anyone really care that much, so long as said son is happy and healthy? I really don't get it.
*woops just noticed that is on another thread.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
For me, no it doesn't make a difference whether they are happy gardening, working in Tescos or being a city lawyer. I guess though as a parent I want them to have the choice. My parents put me in the position where I could choose from a very wide range of what are considered "top careers" or anything else that would make me happy. That's what I want to be able to offer my children as I don't think they are in a position to decide their future now.
It's different having the job shelf-stacking if you've chosen it because you love it. If however you shelf-stack because you can't get a job you would really prefer, it's not so good as you might find it boring and not well paid. If you're going to be bored in a job (as many are out of necessity unfortunately) you may as well be better paid and retire earlier as a consequence and give the time back with volunteering in something you do like.
People who go to tutors with the cheque book open because the child has been lazy until now and they wish them to get good GCSEs are still doing the best they can as parents at that point in time. And who knows, if you did take the child on they may develop a love of whatever it was that you were teaching them and become self-motivated. I don't like giving up on people. Perhaps with different parents those children may have had more self-motivation up to now.
Bad tutoring is one thing, but I see nothing wrong with good tutoring and people who decry it should be ashamed of themselves. I don't particularly rate the thoughts of headteachers on children's ability or the merits or otherwise of private tutoring - I don't think they are well placed to pronounce on these things just because they are headteachers - some will be good at it, others will not.
Ben Thomas and his family are clearly good at growing a chain of expensive independent schools. I don't know if they know anything about ability or the skills of private tutors. Clearly they give a lot of homework at his schools from what he says. If people are using private tutors while they are at his schools that would suggest that the school is not providing what the parents had hoped for, so it would be something for him to mull over and find out the root causes of this behind the scenes, rather than decry families and tutors in the press.
Also, if his teachers are spending their spare time private tutoring rather than preparing and marking great lessons, that would be a cause for concern.
It's different having the job shelf-stacking if you've chosen it because you love it. If however you shelf-stack because you can't get a job you would really prefer, it's not so good as you might find it boring and not well paid. If you're going to be bored in a job (as many are out of necessity unfortunately) you may as well be better paid and retire earlier as a consequence and give the time back with volunteering in something you do like.
People who go to tutors with the cheque book open because the child has been lazy until now and they wish them to get good GCSEs are still doing the best they can as parents at that point in time. And who knows, if you did take the child on they may develop a love of whatever it was that you were teaching them and become self-motivated. I don't like giving up on people. Perhaps with different parents those children may have had more self-motivation up to now.
Bad tutoring is one thing, but I see nothing wrong with good tutoring and people who decry it should be ashamed of themselves. I don't particularly rate the thoughts of headteachers on children's ability or the merits or otherwise of private tutoring - I don't think they are well placed to pronounce on these things just because they are headteachers - some will be good at it, others will not.
Ben Thomas and his family are clearly good at growing a chain of expensive independent schools. I don't know if they know anything about ability or the skills of private tutors. Clearly they give a lot of homework at his schools from what he says. If people are using private tutors while they are at his schools that would suggest that the school is not providing what the parents had hoped for, so it would be something for him to mull over and find out the root causes of this behind the scenes, rather than decry families and tutors in the press.
Also, if his teachers are spending their spare time private tutoring rather than preparing and marking great lessons, that would be a cause for concern.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
Ben Thomas (?) man in article spoke about the huge amount of homework as if this was the norm at all schools hence how did children have time for tutoring?
Our very highly regarded primary has about 10 mins a week in KS1 and about 45 mins once a week in KS2.
Our very highly regarded primary has about 10 mins a week in KS1 and about 45 mins once a week in KS2.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
Yes - I'm not entirely sure whether he was speaking about all schools, or his chain of schools. He says "We set an enormous amount of homework". Who is "we"?
My year 4 daughter does get a lot of homework if you actually did it and took it seriously. But it's badly thought out and not helpfully marked. We ignore a lot of it quite safely. An hour spent at a tutor would be a better use of her childhood than completing most of it.
My year 4 daughter does get a lot of homework if you actually did it and took it seriously. But it's badly thought out and not helpfully marked. We ignore a lot of it quite safely. An hour spent at a tutor would be a better use of her childhood than completing most of it.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
Tutoring is endemic at all schools, independent, state and grammar. It is fine if it just to help with the odd subject that a DC has trouble with however I think this is not always the case. I am aware of parents that have tutoring in more than one subject just to help their DC stay in the top sets at the local comprehensive rather than let them drop down a set which actually may be more beneficial as the pace would suit the DC better. Also at the independents and grammar schools I am aware of parents tutoring DC to avoid the 'we are not sure if this is the right school for your DC' conversation with the headteacher.
Our education system should be able to provide what our children need but with such endemic tutoring many are actually in the wrong schools/classes for their inherent ability.
Our education system should be able to provide what our children need but with such endemic tutoring many are actually in the wrong schools/classes for their inherent ability.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
Your last paragraph highlights one of the issues, inherent ability isn't easy to gauge. Practice means children's attainment improves - I know children who know all their tables by 5 years old, fluently. Every day they practise Maths and confidence improves along with focus and tenacity. They usually do well early on & success often breeds success.
As for Maths sets in my experience it can penalise those at the margins - there's usually a level each set is working towards. A child that has good logic and understanding but works slowly may lose out & not be exposed to slightly more complex work. After a while an attainment gap opens up. Of course if the system is flexible enough there's no concern about ensuring that firm foundations are there. Our school sets for Maths at the end of KS1 when some are still 6. They believe they teach children to their ability. It's rare for a child to move down a Maths set in our school - once that ability has been ascertained it can't decline. Poor performance is likely put down to other external factors & at least at our school they are likely to be well supported within the set they were originally placed.
Talking to some preps it seems they give their only subject specialist teachers to the top set. I thought that was interesting.
As a parent, all things considered, I'd rather my child was over rather than under estimated.
As for Maths sets in my experience it can penalise those at the margins - there's usually a level each set is working towards. A child that has good logic and understanding but works slowly may lose out & not be exposed to slightly more complex work. After a while an attainment gap opens up. Of course if the system is flexible enough there's no concern about ensuring that firm foundations are there. Our school sets for Maths at the end of KS1 when some are still 6. They believe they teach children to their ability. It's rare for a child to move down a Maths set in our school - once that ability has been ascertained it can't decline. Poor performance is likely put down to other external factors & at least at our school they are likely to be well supported within the set they were originally placed.
Talking to some preps it seems they give their only subject specialist teachers to the top set. I thought that was interesting.
As a parent, all things considered, I'd rather my child was over rather than under estimated.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
Yes, me too! And over rather than under educated.
As to independent schools having the conversation with parents about leaving because their child is not academically strong enough for the school, you can see why parents would try tutoring to avoid this horrible problem.
As a teacher I would shudder at having this conversation as it would feel to me like a failing of the school being brushed off as something wrong with the child.
In a way Cranleigh, your school is being helpful if it supports children in trying to maintain the level of progress they had when the original setting decision was made. However, the converse is, as you so rightly point out, that children who are underestimated in the first place will continue on a learning curve which is slower than it might be without the opportunity to catch up.
We could say, so what, they'll just get to the same point ultimately but a few years later. That is correct but so much depends in England on what you have attained at 11, 16 and 18 that it can matter. This is why tutors are bought in by those who want to best this kind of problem and can afford them. Of course, only a good tutor will help.
As to independent schools having the conversation with parents about leaving because their child is not academically strong enough for the school, you can see why parents would try tutoring to avoid this horrible problem.
As a teacher I would shudder at having this conversation as it would feel to me like a failing of the school being brushed off as something wrong with the child.
In a way Cranleigh, your school is being helpful if it supports children in trying to maintain the level of progress they had when the original setting decision was made. However, the converse is, as you so rightly point out, that children who are underestimated in the first place will continue on a learning curve which is slower than it might be without the opportunity to catch up.
We could say, so what, they'll just get to the same point ultimately but a few years later. That is correct but so much depends in England on what you have attained at 11, 16 and 18 that it can matter. This is why tutors are bought in by those who want to best this kind of problem and can afford them. Of course, only a good tutor will help.
Re: Private Tutoring at GS??
Quite genuinely, for me that is a vision of H ell.Cranleigh wrote: I know children who know all their tables by 5 years old, fluently.
