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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:27 am 
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Location: Warwickshire
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23334334


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:05 am 
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What a great idea. I wonder why they are waiting till children are 11? I think it would be valuable to know much younger - say 6 weeks - so that one could target interventions at those who are falling behind. My DD,for example, crawled much later than all my friend's children. It would have really helped me at the time to know where she stood (or didn't) against a wider cohort so I could have either stopped intenisively coaching her by crawling round everwhere myself for her to copy, or got a qualified crawling tutor in to address the issue.

I think it will be great - instead of comparing which reading book children are on, parents will be able to discuss rankings in the playground. A novel way to make new friends: 'where did little Brutus come? Antonia was second and I'm trying to find out who beat her.' Parents could throw 'top ten parties' - to congratulate their own child on its high ranking and at the same time to select friends of similar calibre. Gosh how I regret that my children are beyond Year 6 now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:06 am 
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There is not enough information yet for me to really understand what it might mean in practice. Are there still going to be criteria for levels as well?

I could understand a system where you still had descriptions for criteria for each level linked back to the new national curriculum document, but then refined the marking and information to parents a bit more to sublevels at KS2 by saying what range of marks falls into each sublevel. You could then set a sublevel which was considered to be "secondary ready", and you could each year publish the percentage of children achieving each sublevel so that parents could see where a sublevel placed them relative to other children nationally.

Placing children in centiles suggests to me something different from a criteria-based test. At the moment any child could theoretically achieve any of the levels, but once you start putting children in centiles and publishing the data that way (perfectly possible from the info they have already to work backwards on this for many years if they wish) it becomes harder to show if there has been any improvement. You could have all children achieving level 5 nationally in terms of what they have learned and can do, but it still looking like 50% of children have unacceptable performance as humans don't like to be in the 50th centile or less, and politicians can't do statistics and want everyone to be average or better.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:13 am 
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Oh Amber, you did make me laugh :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:22 am 
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Quote:
My DD,for example, crawled much later than all my friend's children. It would have really helped me at the time to know where she stood (or didn't) against a wider cohort so I could have either stopped intenisively coaching her by crawling round everwhere myself for her to copy, or got a qualified crawling tutor in to address the issue.

Priceless :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:26 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/step ... ds-for-all

This is the official press release - the BBC item is a bit of a fluffy version. Still some things that don't quite stack up in the real version though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:29 am 
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Amber wrote:
What a great idea. I wonder why they are waiting till children are 11? I think it would be valuable to know much younger - say 6 weeks - so that one could target interventions at those who are falling behind. My DD,for example, crawled much later than all my friend's children. It would have really helped me at the time to know where she stood (or didn't) against a wider cohort so I could have either stopped intenisively coaching her by crawling round everwhere myself for her to copy, or got a qualified crawling tutor in to address the issue.

I think it will be great - instead of comparing which reading book children are on, parents will be able to discuss rankings in the playground. A novel way to make new friends: 'where did little Brutus come? Antonia was second and I'm trying to find out who beat her.' Parents could throw 'top ten parties' - to congratulate their own child on its high ranking and at the same time to select friends of similar calibre. Gosh how I regret that my children are beyond Year 6 now.




:lol: :lol: Though perhaps movement in the womb could be the first area of assessment; surely this is a sure indicator of later physical ability and we all know that it's a healthy mind in a healthy body!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:51 am 
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mystery wrote:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/step-change-in-ambition-for-primary-schools-will-raise-standards-for-all

This is the official press release - the BBC item is a bit of a fluffy version. Still some things that don't quite stack up in the real version though.



I don't think this ranking at 11 is quite as it sounds. It's a pity the BBC has reported on it the way that it has as it makes this "ranking" notion the central plank of what is being said, and I don't think that it is. It looks more a case of people who don't really understand the current system trying to report on the modifications that might be made in the future.

I know it's great fun to laugh at parents who are hyper-interested in exactly what NC sub-level their child is on every day of the year, but there is I feel a need for more people to have understood the current system that has been around for years. We are not a good cross-section of parents on here, but I come across many parents at our affluent primary school who do not understand the current grading system, and the school does not wish them to understand it either. So there are some intelligent and very busy hard-working parents who trot along dutifully to each parents' evening and hear that their child is "making expected progress" or "meeting expectations" and go away feeling happy. Then they read a school report which glows with positive only statements, and from time to time receive some gibberish numbers alongside which they assume must be good as everything else they have heard has given them the "feel good" factor.

Then when in year 6 it all starts to become a bit clearer that their child might not scrape a four ( although they have the full capabilities to have been taught to do so) they wish they had understood the system a bit more clearly and received some clearer info earlier on. Then the ones that can afford to do so pack them off to small independent secondary schools where the staff have time to fill in the vast gaps that would just be left to get wider in our Kent secondary moderns. And the ones that can't afford to do so tear their hair out and wish they'd been better informed.

I volunteer at another school (not affluent, high FSM and special needs) where parents have had the system explained to them very clearly and how to support their children effectively. The vast majority of them understand it and are much more involved at home than at our affluent school. It makes a big difference.

Perhaps it's a case of rather than throwing the current system out of the window they could have tried to demystify it for parents whose children are at secretive schools like ours, and pointing parents in the direction of free or cheap resources they can use to help their child with basic skills if the school is a bit lacking in this respect.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:14 am 
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They also said on the radio that they would be doing formal tests for 5 year olds, so nearly what you are after, Amber. 2 of my 3 walked very late, I think I already know they would have been in the "bottom" few percent, but maybe it would be useful if the government could issue ranking tables, then new mums could compare over coffee & soft play :D . Funnily enough, they can all walk, run, jump and dance just like any other able bodied child now. Oh yes, just like children who may not excel at 11 can excel later on...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:21 am 
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mystery wrote:
Still some things that don't quite stack up in the real version though.
Yeah, like the entire rationale behind the whole sorry scheme. Assuming there actually is a rationale, which knowing Gove, there won't be. The only country in the entire world which ranks children into 'bands' at age ten, Germany, is currently undergoing a very painful process of trying to address the inequalities it brings with it, both in social and academic terms. Their three tier system has led to an entire academic underclass as well as a prized academic elite. What a thing to aspire to!


If there has ever been something worth going out onto the streets to protest about, this is it. And mystery, you profess to be against seeing children's intelligence as 'fixed'. This type of thing is exactly, precisely what leads to that perception. In Asia where children are all taught together, there is no differentiation of the curriculum at all. The same 'hard' worksheet, given to everyone, will be completed by everyone. It may just take some a little longer. Everyone is expected to achieve; as in Finland, where it is done by entirely different means, but to the same end. We are totally obsessed with differentiation in this country - why?

This will be nothing short of a national educational and social disaster if it is allowed to take hold, I passionately believe that.


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