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 Post subject: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:30 am
Posts: 2248
Ooh, for discussion, this is so fascinating. My thanks to mystery who recommended this book, which ties in beautifully with carol dwecks work on growth and fixed mindsets. I have one of each mindset, more or less.
Very short video, I recommend the book if this is an area that interests you. It's proving a real eye opener for my maths resistant son, who will practice and practice his way through a difficult cornet piece, but loses all his strategies when faced with a tough maths problem.

Surely those of us who prepped for the eleven plus MUST feel this way......

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mF0v-C_A45E


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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:10 pm 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 79690.html
I did post this on my local area section sometime ago.
you may find it useful
I think it contradicts what one poster on here ( cranleigh?) was saying that schools are more interested in naturally intelligent students than hard grafters.


Last edited by JSN on Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 6694
Location: Herts
I have posted a lot on this. If you search on Daviddads02 you will see my responses to his claims about natural ability. I also started a separate thread on it. Dame Alice Owen's school is a great exponent of Bounce and Mindsets and held an evening information session on it last year. All the students have had briefings on it and you will not catch any member of staff in the school using the words talent or ability. We have a concert tonight and at the end the Head will get up on the stage and congratulate the students on their hard work. I don't believe in talent or ability. I have seen many "able" students completely overtaken by others because they simply worked harder. There are gifted and talented students from primary school who are no longer in any of the top sets. Others from lower tables in the same school are because they applied themselves. I see it everywhere, music, sport, drama and academic. Entrance exams and who gets in are all about this. Every year local parents are surprised by some of the results when "able" students fail to get places and more "average" students do. DG


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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 3579
At the end of footy training, there will nearly always be two or three lads, who's parents are still standing around in the cold whilst their kids continue to practise shooting, and tackling one another, long after the two hours training has finished....it is often these lads who others say have "natural talent" :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:05 am
Posts: 580
My eldest read this when she was about 14, and it def encouraged her mindset. She has always worked so so hard, and although bright she def feels she worked at least 50% harder than lots of her contemporaries......working for AS levels and A levels really consistently over months.........

My youngest is 'musical' I.e. Interested and has aptitude, but as he knows you get the distinctions in grade exams by working hard every day on your pieces and that is that!!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 6694
Location: Herts
The Thread is called Chances at QE: ability versus preparation by Davidsdad02 in the Herts section. It was closed after 99 posts by WP when it got a bit overheated! DG


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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:29 pm 
everything can be perfected by practice EXCEPT ART, God knows I have tried , hours and hours and still cannot draw or paint for toffee!( and I am quite dextrous with my hands -and no smutty remarks from proud-dad :lol: )
any suggestions on how to improve would be gratefully appreciated.
do not wish to go off topic so early in this interesting and important thread , so feel free to PM me and as the thread develops I may report back if my still art gets any better.


Last edited by JSN on Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 3579
However, I have to add, for most people it is easier to work hard at something if you have a talent for it in the first place, and most people do have something that comes easily to them, and I happily encourage my boys to work to their strengths.

As for art..read elements of drawing by John Ruskin...He was convinced you can learn to draw, by repetition, and accepting that erasing mistakes is an essential part of the process.


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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:55 am
Posts: 500
I think an average person can become competently good at anything through hours of practice.

However, I don't think an average person could ever match the achievements of someone like Shakespeare, Mozart, Michael Angelo, Einstein, Maradonna or Usain Bolt however hard they worked or practiced. To be the very best requires both innate talent and hard work IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: The talent myth
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:14 pm
Posts: 625
I think hard work helps everyone to make the most of their targets. Without hard work all the talent in the world is useless because a hardworking person will always overtake the clever one. That is something I have seen a number of times. Intelligence might make things easier to understand in the first place but hard work brings success.

I remember the thread which was locked - in fact 2 were locked (one was eventually unlocked after deleting a whole day's posts) - and that was along the same lines.


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