The talent myth

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JSN

Re: The talent myth

Post by JSN »

recently I was talking to my son's High Master , we were discussing how well state children even those from local grammars did in 6th form of a top Indie School like MGS, and his opinion was they found it difficult to put the hours in that is required to get the top grades at A level-it came as a culture shock to them , whereas those that had been in MGS from the start were used toworking 3-4hr every night for their iGSCE's .
a quite a lot of the boys at MGS where state 11+ failures at least from the Trafford Area as was my son, yet almost all of them get A*/A at GCSE across the board.
effort trumps natural intelligence every time IMO
there is nothing special about the kids in the elite indies , they are worked very,very hard , because from yr7 expectations are so high from the very start.
I just wish the state sector instead of criticising the private sector would take on best practice from the indie sector which is the envy of world that's why there are hoards of super- rich Chinese and Russian students flooding our Public Schools relentlessly driving up fees!
copella
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Re: The talent myth

Post by copella »

I have just shown the you tube video to my older DS who constantly puts himself down but has shown when he works hard he can get very good scores. I wanted to show him evidence that hard work counts. It is interesting as daogroupie has mentioned that there was a long debate on here with many of us stating that it is hard work and not just innate brightness which gets people through. No school jus wants children who only know how to win, knowing what has gone wrong and then being able to make changes and succeed is preferable.
Guest55
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: The talent myth

Post by Guest55 »

best practice from the indie sector
There is very little good teaching at Private schools I'm afraid. This is from my own personal experience and that of colleagues who have been shocked at what they have seen if they venture into that sector. The inspection system is a joke - schools inspecting each other - no rigour at all.

Good results come from children who work hard and then have tutors on top!
JSN

Re: The talent myth

Post by JSN »

Guest55 wrote:Good results come from children who work hard and then have tutors on top!
I assume you are directing this at indies kids.
well let me tell you there is more private tutoring going on at the Altrincham Grammars than any of the private schools in the N.W .
SB3 thinks Bucks is affluent try Bowden/Alderley Egde in cheshire more Rollers/Champagne per capita than almost anywhere in the the U.K !!
Yamin151
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Re: The talent myth

Post by Yamin151 »

Daogroupie wrote:The Thread is called Chances at QE: ability versus preparation by Davidsdad02 in the Herts section. It was closed after 99 posts by WP when it got a bit overheated! DG
Thanks DG, I'll take a look
Yamin151
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:30 am

Re: The talent myth

Post by Yamin151 »

Proud_Dad wrote:I think an average person can become competently good at anything through hours of practice.

However, I don't think an average person could ever match the achievements of someone like Shakespeare, Mozart, Michael Angelo, Einstein, Maradonna or Usain Bolt however hard they worked or practiced. To be the very best requires both innate talent and hard work IMO.
It may be controversial to say, but I am kind of with you on the music and literary skill. I do think a hard studying person could overtake a talented person who doesn't work, as has been said. But yes, perhaps in music and literature, there are people who have an innate talent that if nurtured, is hard to match. Sport? I wonder whether that is less to do with a natural ability and more to do with physiology and body shape or build, given equally intense training.
We had a chat at my lads gym earlier about whether this applies to intellect. Assuming a kind of bell curve where the vast majority of population falls between 30 to 70% intellect! maybe a 30%er can move themselves to a 60%er with hard work. Will they ever reach 95%? Not sure. But these are outliers, and I think in the real world, for most of us, hard work and application will give you talents in all fields you never knew you had. Especially in things like maths.
JSN

Re: The talent myth

Post by JSN »

Yamin151 wrote:Especially in things like maths.
I could not agree more.
Lets be anecdotal rather than factual/ research based which carries more weight on this forum :roll:
My son failed his 11plus 'in those days there were only 4 gl familiarisation papers we were advised by Alty boys that's all was required so he he did the 4 papers 10 days before the exam and promptly failed maths score of 114 out of 141 with practice is now recognised as one of the top 100 mathematicians in the country(of his age group)at 14 yrs and hopefully will bringing the U.K the Maths Olympiad in 2yrs time
He practices for 1 hr a day very complex maths.
it's all practice -simples and I ensure you he is no Einstein/Mozart

creative writing/art ect is so much more difficult IMO
Yamin151
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Re: The talent myth

Post by Yamin151 »

JSN wrote:
Yamin151 wrote:Especially in things like maths.
I could not agree more.
Lets be anecdotal rather than factual/ research based which carries more weight on this forum :roll:
My son failed his 11plus 'in those days there were only 4 gl familiarisation papers we were advised by Alty boys that's all was required so he he did the 4 papers 10 days before the exam and promptly failed maths score of 114 out of 141 with practice is now recognised as one of the top 100 mathematicians in the country at 14 yrs and hopefully will bringing the U.K the Maths Olympiad in 2yrs time
He practices for 1 hr a day very complex maths.
it's all practice -simples and I ensure you he is no Einstein/Mozart

creative writing/art ect is so much more difficult IMO
Wow! What a dedicated mathematician. You must be very proud of all his hard work! Any what a turnaround. This is why We have kept the boys coach on just a half hour a week an d they do ten mins a day. In its small way,all that practice leads to a big payoff in maths ability. As I have written in a few places around the house now, "practice makes you talented!"
sherry_d
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Location: Maidstone

Re: The talent myth

Post by sherry_d »

It is an interesting book.

If you haven't read Maxwell Gladwell's Outliers that's another good read and an interesting one too on the same subject. So is Bounce by Matthew Syed. Carole Dweck's mindset is another one even though it's a bit choppy in certain places.
Impossible is Nothing.
Daogroupie
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Location: Herts

Re: The talent myth

Post by Daogroupie »

Anyone can be good at creative writing if they are taught well and work hard. I think that there appears to be a lot of natural ability in Art but I am prepared to listen to anyone who can tell me a way to learn how to do it. DG
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