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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 3579
I suspect this has been mentioned before, but worth a look for any that missed it like me.
Came across this on you tube...not sure how, I was looking at something else entirely.
Very interesting programme 15 years old, on primary education failings in uk compared to Northern Europe where formal learning starts at six or seven. Things have got worse since imo, and heading to get worse still.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=iUum1w8s5ew

The strange thing is, I did not start school until I was 6, as I was a summer baby, and my mum thought earlier was daft, as I had only just turned 5, and in those days you simply had a chat with the head, and joined next year. She taught me with building blocks, a well used abacus and joining in literally everything (she had the patience of a saint). Although she did teach me letters and reading, it was not a sit down job, it was things like unpacking the shopping, and looking at the labels, for some reason I particularly remember loving reading "vim" :lol: Also lots and lots of cooking and gardening. She did not make me write until the summer before I was about to join school at six, and then I just remember doing it, not struggling about with dotty lines like my boys did! (I may remember wrong of course)
When I joined school I was streets ahead of my peers, to a level I felt awkward about, and got a bit bullied for...I soon managed to regress though. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 522
southbucks3 wrote:
I suspect this has been mentioned before, but worth a look for any that missed it like me.
Came across this on you tube...not sure how, I was looking at something else entirely.
Very interesting programme 15 years old, on primary education failings in uk compared to Northern Europe where formal learning starts at six or seven. Things have got worse since imo, and heading to get worse still.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=iUum1w8s5ew

The strange thing is, I did not start school until I was 6, as I was a summer baby, and my mum thought earlier was daft, as I had only just turned 5, and in those days you simply had a chat with the head, and joined next year. She taught me with building blocks, a well used abacus and joining in literally everything (she had the patience of a saint). Although she did teach me letters and reading, it was not a sit down job, it was things like unpacking the shopping, and looking at the labels, for some reason I particularly remember loving reading "vim" :lol: Also lots and lots of cooking and gardening. She did not make me write until the summer before I was about to join school at six, and then I just remember doing it, not struggling about with dotty lines like my boys did! (I may remember wrong of course)
When I joined school I was streets ahead of my peers, to a level I felt awkward about, and got a bit bullied for...I soon managed to regress though. :lol:


We have family in Germany where children only start school between 6 and 7. Their children are at exactly the same stage as my children at the same age except that their children learnt to read and write more in the way that you describe, SB3. It seemed to happen more by osmosis than by actual sitting down and being taught. My niece is exactly the same age as dd2 and is at exactly the same stage as dd2 despite only starting school 18 months ago whereas dd2 has been at school since she was 4.

I feel that we send our kids to school too young. I don't feel it benefits them at all. I think that most of the reception year is spent teaching children physical skills that they would be better off learning at home and preschool. In Germany, children start preschool at 3 and go 5 mornings a week till they are 6. By the time they get to school, they can go to the toilet on their own and turn their clothes the right way round and put them back on again. They can also hold a pencil and a knife and fork. They've mastered a lot of the physical skills they need and are ready to focus on more cognitive tasks.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:48 am 
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It was because of this I started homeschooling, I thought the age of 5 was much too young to be forced into an institution and I loved having the boys at home, although homeschooling might not be a correct term as we were outdoors most of the time!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:01 am 
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DS did not go to school or nursery until the beginning of year 3 - he must have been a dream for the school in terms of "value added"!!!! He went from mooching about saying reading and books were "boring" and "stupid" to reading umpteen a week in about 6 weeks (he only ended up at school when he did because of this attitude problem - if he had only been a little more cunning he could have had another 2 years at home!!)

I cannot imagine a worst fate for a child than spending endless days incarcerated in a nursery or pre-school, however good the staff. These places are just prisons for children.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:07 am 
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The video shows how the early years or pre schooling for under 7's is really not just incarceration in these countries. Lots of structured play, all very clever and defined to help the children progress, without jumping the gun to things they cannot hope to be interested in, or understand. Shorter days too for under 7's.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:48 am 
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Location: Maidstone
Most parents are buying into the idea that children need to be in school at 4. Last week I was chatting to two friends moaning that their children who are September and October born are so ready for school yet they have to wait another year. They were moaning their boys are hard work now so perhaps for tired parents school at 4 is seen more as a break. The same friend has a summer daughter doing GCSE this year and she keeps going on about how she is disadvantaged and isn’t doing very well because she is a summer baby.

I do wonder what the definition of “being ready for school” is? Having good motor skills, being able to sit still is education to me and that can be learnt at home. What’s even depressing is when they start labeling and putting them in academic tables at that age and then the year 2 SATS. Teachers are very quick to jump and say that children do move around but that wasn't my experience at all. Those who were labelled bottom table at 4 languished there till year 6. The ones deemed clever are given level 3 papers at KS2 so the whole things just rolls on like that.

Regarding most pre schools being incarceration I totally agree. I remember going round when my son was about two looking at these pre school especially the ones in village halls. Oh my, they were just so depressing. Didn't take him in the end but almost all of them were truly awful and not fit for purpose.

There was a recent report regarding the funding for two year old they introduced to children from poor familes. The report stated the care these children had received was poor and inadequate. The children had even made worse progress because no one in these settings was talking to these children and more damning stuff.

UK is the the only country in Europe that sends children to school at 4. Cyprus and Malta are the only other ones that force children in school at 5 otherwise for all the other European countries it's ages 6 and 7.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:43 am 
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I think it is very easy to look at other countries and see the grass a little greener over there, but if you scratch below the surface you find the same boggy mud as we have here, the attainment of the Asian countries is achieved by a work ethic and dedication that is unacceptable here and an amount of homework that would probably kill off most of our children. In Germany they start obligatory schooling much later than here (many are schooled before this) and when they start their school day is very strange they may go to school at 8am and finish at 11 or 12 then have an enormous amount of work to do at home (not to mention the school hours being a nightmare for working parents). Other European countries that maybe don't have National Tests like we do here are constantly testing and grading the children within school children take home these grades on a monthly basis. Every time I visit family abroad they ask me what grades the children have been given this week/month/term.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:48 am 
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Quote:
UK is the the only country in Europe that sends children to school at 4. Cyprus and Malta are the only other ones that force children in school at 5 otherwise for all the other European countries it's ages 6 and 7.


I am pretty sure kids are sent to school at 3 in Spain, they may not call it school but it is obligatory.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:56 am 
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Irish children start at 3 or 4.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:41 pm
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Location: Gravesend, Kent
guest201 wrote:

I am pretty sure kids are sent to school at 3 in Spain, they may not call it school but it is obligatory.


That's right guest 201.

On holiday last year in Spain, I got chatting to one of the pool staff who was an English lady married to a Spaniard. Her son was going to be 2 in the August and was due to start compulsory nursery education in September as he'd be 3 that school year.

Therefore he would start at 2 years and 1 month and would be expected to be fluent in Spanish and Catalan when he started.

At least in the UK, going to nursery is a parental choice, not compulsory!


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