Proving reasons for absence
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Re: Proving reasons for absence
They are not statutory requirements - see above response from the DfE. It sounds as though mm23292 has just received a standard letter which is aimed at all children with absence below 90%- whatever the reason, saying that they have to provide "evidence" of why they are off. In this sense, the letter is aimed at mm2392 as her child has less than 90% attendance by the sounds of it, so she does have to provide "evidence" unless they are going to let everyone off this impossible requirement.
I don't know quite how one proves that for every morning and afternoon session that a child was ill off school that they were ill enough to merit being off school. It just isn't possible. Maybe live webcam coverage from the home to the school is needed? Have they explained what satisfactory evidence is mm23292? I guess that a photocopy of discharge letters is easy enough to confirm the dates of a hospital stay, but where a child is ill at home what are you really supposed to do?
I wouldn't be annoyed though. It's unenforceable and a bit of jobsworth approach. They are probably just doing this to keep the Education Welfare Officer happy. It must be the EWO's role to advise schools to write letters like this to all parents as it looks on paper as though they are "doing something" but it's easier than tracking down the children who are being sent to work on a market stall or kept home to do housework or babysit younger children.
Doesn't sound like your child's education is suffering relative to the others so either you are great at helping her keep up or she's not learning much there.
I don't know quite how one proves that for every morning and afternoon session that a child was ill off school that they were ill enough to merit being off school. It just isn't possible. Maybe live webcam coverage from the home to the school is needed? Have they explained what satisfactory evidence is mm23292? I guess that a photocopy of discharge letters is easy enough to confirm the dates of a hospital stay, but where a child is ill at home what are you really supposed to do?
I wouldn't be annoyed though. It's unenforceable and a bit of jobsworth approach. They are probably just doing this to keep the Education Welfare Officer happy. It must be the EWO's role to advise schools to write letters like this to all parents as it looks on paper as though they are "doing something" but it's easier than tracking down the children who are being sent to work on a market stall or kept home to do housework or babysit younger children.
Doesn't sound like your child's education is suffering relative to the others so either you are great at helping her keep up or she's not learning much there.
Re: Proving reasons for absence
mystery - EWOs don't exist anymore they have been renamed.
OP - the school may be concerned about an inspection and they need to show they are acting on low attendance whether it is for good reasons or not.
OP - the school may be concerned about an inspection and they need to show they are acting on low attendance whether it is for good reasons or not.
Re: Proving reasons for absence
Attendance officers then. Whatever your authority calls them. http://www.kelsi.org.uk/pupil_support_a ... rrals.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We're old fashioned in Kent and call them EWOs still. What's the new name in Bucks? Child-catchers? Parent-finers?
We're old fashioned in Kent and call them EWOs still. What's the new name in Bucks? Child-catchers? Parent-finers?
Last edited by mystery on Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Proving reasons for absence
Yep, it's a possibility that the school is concerned about inspection (and not infection) but it's not how OFSTED is expecting them to operate now is it? See reply from DfE earlier in this thread.
Our school is always concerned about attendance for inspections and wants attendance to look higher than the national average even if it's a sham e.g. clearly unwell kid being held in school until 1pm registration and then office allowed to phone the parent so that the child can go home, green looking children not allowed out of the classroom until they have puked in a bucket etc. Great learning going on with some good bug spreading at the same time.
But I am hoping that OFSTED is a bit more particular about how they approach it than silly things like mm2392's school blanket requirements for impossible evidence. Surely OFSTED seek to see what the school is doing to improve the education of those whose attendance is poor, for whatever reason, and who are not making good or outstanding progress whether it be by improving attendance of those individuals or other measures.
Our school is always concerned about attendance for inspections and wants attendance to look higher than the national average even if it's a sham e.g. clearly unwell kid being held in school until 1pm registration and then office allowed to phone the parent so that the child can go home, green looking children not allowed out of the classroom until they have puked in a bucket etc. Great learning going on with some good bug spreading at the same time.
But I am hoping that OFSTED is a bit more particular about how they approach it than silly things like mm2392's school blanket requirements for impossible evidence. Surely OFSTED seek to see what the school is doing to improve the education of those whose attendance is poor, for whatever reason, and who are not making good or outstanding progress whether it be by improving attendance of those individuals or other measures.
Re: Proving reasons for absence
Always called them the "Wag-Man" when I was growing up.mystery wrote:Attendance officers then. Whatever your authority calls them. http://www.kelsi.org.uk/pupil_support_a ... rrals.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We're old fashioned in Kent and call them EWOs still. What's the new name in Bucks? Child-catchers? Parent-finers?
I hope thats not rude.....
Re: Proving reasons for absence
[quote="AmberI don't know if I have just been lucky or led a sheltered life but I don't know any children whose parents kept them off school just because they hadn't had enough days off - far more likely in my experience that children who were much to unwell to go to school were sent in anyway because it suited parents better. [/quote]
That was certainly the case with DD1 Amber, she barely had a day off throughout her primary years, much to her dismay at times! However, in DD2's class, there are definitely many kids who take random days with minor bugs, and some of the mums openly discuss the merits of keeping them at home once in a while, if they are a little under the weather. Mondays are decidedly popular!
It is by no means an under achieving school, and attendance by national standards is very good. And do remember, this school is a tiny village school, not some huge inner city comp!
This new policy was emailed to everyone at the beginning of the year, upon which I had a meeting to discuss DD's issues relative to her previous attendance. When she was ill subsequent to that, they were always kept well informed. When she was discharged from hospital the last time, we (including her doctor) agreed she would return after the half term, as she took some time to recover. It was certainly never indicated that the reasons for her absence, were not 'accepted'. Now I have been notified, that as my DD has fallen below the 90% threshold for this term, I need to provide this information, which would indicate to me, that the reasons for her absence have not been accepted?!
Two children have had leave authorised for overseas visits, and many of DD's friends have come in close to the 90% for the usual run of the mill stuff that requires no further explanation...yet it would seem that unless I provide 'evidence' of DD's illnesses, her leave will not be authorised?? Where is the tactful dose of discretion in that?
I understand the principles involved, but I do think that blanket policy without any discretion, is more fitting for a school that has an obvious need to deliver it that way, and not some tiny infant school where children have education conscious parents who generally want them to attend!
That was certainly the case with DD1 Amber, she barely had a day off throughout her primary years, much to her dismay at times! However, in DD2's class, there are definitely many kids who take random days with minor bugs, and some of the mums openly discuss the merits of keeping them at home once in a while, if they are a little under the weather. Mondays are decidedly popular!
It is by no means an under achieving school, and attendance by national standards is very good. And do remember, this school is a tiny village school, not some huge inner city comp!
This new policy was emailed to everyone at the beginning of the year, upon which I had a meeting to discuss DD's issues relative to her previous attendance. When she was ill subsequent to that, they were always kept well informed. When she was discharged from hospital the last time, we (including her doctor) agreed she would return after the half term, as she took some time to recover. It was certainly never indicated that the reasons for her absence, were not 'accepted'. Now I have been notified, that as my DD has fallen below the 90% threshold for this term, I need to provide this information, which would indicate to me, that the reasons for her absence have not been accepted?!
Two children have had leave authorised for overseas visits, and many of DD's friends have come in close to the 90% for the usual run of the mill stuff that requires no further explanation...yet it would seem that unless I provide 'evidence' of DD's illnesses, her leave will not be authorised?? Where is the tactful dose of discretion in that?
I understand the principles involved, but I do think that blanket policy without any discretion, is more fitting for a school that has an obvious need to deliver it that way, and not some tiny infant school where children have education conscious parents who generally want them to attend!
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kenyancowgirl
- Posts: 6738
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Re: Proving reasons for absence
Honestly, don't let this give you further stress. Whether it is authorised or not, it is still absence and still counts towards the notional 90%, hence your daughter is required, along with everyone else in the school with lower than 90% attendance, to provide evidence. The key here is more the evidence - you haven't said what this has to be - a letter from a doctor? Unlikely, as it is perfectly OK - in fact, required - that a parent keeps a v&d child at home for at least 24 hours after - ditto a child with a temperature - but it is unlikely a doctor would be involved. The evidence is more likely to be a form signed by yourself/a parent acknowledging that the child was off - and if they were seen by a doctor/hospital, the parent would be able to provide further additional evidence.
You are understandably emotional about this as you are having to deal with your daughter being unwell - but try and remove yourself one step from it - you have commented about how it annoys you that some parents take their kids out for days here and there - this appears to me to be trying to address that - have your meeting with the head - you could even insist that you have a meeting with her every time your daughter comes back from a period of illness - play the game by their rules and they may well think of a way to make it simpler for you!
You are understandably emotional about this as you are having to deal with your daughter being unwell - but try and remove yourself one step from it - you have commented about how it annoys you that some parents take their kids out for days here and there - this appears to me to be trying to address that - have your meeting with the head - you could even insist that you have a meeting with her every time your daughter comes back from a period of illness - play the game by their rules and they may well think of a way to make it simpler for you!
Re: Proving reasons for absence
Our posts crossed kcg.
You need to write to the head to clarify whether the latest absence has been coded authorised, unauthorised or pending further information. At the same time resend the discharge note ( if you are happy with them seeing the content) in case she did not receive it last time and a written explanation about why she was not fit to return to school straight after discharge. No one would automatically expect a child to be school-fit straight after discharge.
At the same time I would also ask what evidence they require in the future when your daughter is ill at home? Maybe politely point out that it is not desirable or possible to see a doctor for every illness, or every day of an illness so what standard of proof are they requiring.
If they classify an absence as unauthorised they have to let you know this in a letter so I would think it unlikely they have classified anything as unauthorised, they are just working to an old dfe piece of thinking that all absence under 85 percent is "persistent" and needs addressing as it was thought to have dire consequences for a child's education.
In the same letter to the head I would ask her of she feels your daughter's current unavoidable absence level is having an impact on her education and, if so, what help can the school offer with catching up.
I suspect you won't hear anything again. Keep the letter. Keep a file of everything in case you are ever referred to the Education Welfare Officer.
It is annoying but many schools do it this way now. I think they are more draconian because the government is setting fewer rules than it used to. The OFSTED inspection handbook doesn't set any hard and fast rules for the inspection concerning attendance either - it looks like common sense. So continue to apply common sense and don't let school make you feel cross.
If you are doing the b est for your daughter's health, helping her catch up as and when necessary and keeping the school informed and copying them any official bits of paper from hospitals etc as appropriate, what more can you do? Maybe the other parents who keep their children off for the slightest thing are doing some work with them at home and that's why the school has good results? Why do these parents keep them off for no reason do you think? If this is really an issue the school should address it. If sensible parents are not valuing what the school is providing there's something wrong with the education - possibly - or these parents are a bit odd and I'd just feel pleased that it means when your daughter is at school the air is cleaner with fewer of them attending!
You need to write to the head to clarify whether the latest absence has been coded authorised, unauthorised or pending further information. At the same time resend the discharge note ( if you are happy with them seeing the content) in case she did not receive it last time and a written explanation about why she was not fit to return to school straight after discharge. No one would automatically expect a child to be school-fit straight after discharge.
At the same time I would also ask what evidence they require in the future when your daughter is ill at home? Maybe politely point out that it is not desirable or possible to see a doctor for every illness, or every day of an illness so what standard of proof are they requiring.
If they classify an absence as unauthorised they have to let you know this in a letter so I would think it unlikely they have classified anything as unauthorised, they are just working to an old dfe piece of thinking that all absence under 85 percent is "persistent" and needs addressing as it was thought to have dire consequences for a child's education.
In the same letter to the head I would ask her of she feels your daughter's current unavoidable absence level is having an impact on her education and, if so, what help can the school offer with catching up.
I suspect you won't hear anything again. Keep the letter. Keep a file of everything in case you are ever referred to the Education Welfare Officer.
It is annoying but many schools do it this way now. I think they are more draconian because the government is setting fewer rules than it used to. The OFSTED inspection handbook doesn't set any hard and fast rules for the inspection concerning attendance either - it looks like common sense. So continue to apply common sense and don't let school make you feel cross.
If you are doing the b est for your daughter's health, helping her catch up as and when necessary and keeping the school informed and copying them any official bits of paper from hospitals etc as appropriate, what more can you do? Maybe the other parents who keep their children off for the slightest thing are doing some work with them at home and that's why the school has good results? Why do these parents keep them off for no reason do you think? If this is really an issue the school should address it. If sensible parents are not valuing what the school is providing there's something wrong with the education - possibly - or these parents are a bit odd and I'd just feel pleased that it means when your daughter is at school the air is cleaner with fewer of them attending!
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hermanmunster
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Re: Proving reasons for absence
there is a bit of discussion on doctors' fora about this - usual answer when asked by the school to GANFYD (get a note from your doctor) is to ask that the school writes to the doctor defining exactly the information that they want with a signed consent from from the child / parent - then the report will be provided for a fee. I don't think anyone yet has had such a proper request through.
Re: Proving reasons for absence
Makes sense and shows a lot of it is badly thought through hot air which hopefully an intelligent OFSTED inspector would see through if it was the school's only means of managing absence and absence was poor compared with similar schools. But maybe these letters do work to scare off a few people who are unnecessarily hanging the latch - perhaps if one scrutinised the school absence data one would see an improvement after a blanket unenforceable letter like this is sent out? It's not going to stop conscientious parents like MM2392 sending their child to school when well, so in a way the school has nothing to lose by sending out these letters.
The general idea is that if a family values the education and other experiences the school is providing there will be relatively low rates of avoidable absence as the family will be motivated to get the child to school each day.
The general idea is that if a family values the education and other experiences the school is providing there will be relatively low rates of avoidable absence as the family will be motivated to get the child to school each day.
