Shrinking violets closeted away in girls' schools

[yoyo123]

Shrinking violets closeted away in girls' schools

Like me!

[Proud_Dad]

Couldn't agree more doodles. Proud Dad, this is quite a generalisation!!! Really not at all possible to say, it totally depends on character, make up of family, exposure to the opposite sex (if you'll excuse the expression!!) out of school etc etc.

Yes I probably was generalising a bit based on my own experience and others I know (although don't we all do that?). I didn't mean to imply that every single child who goes to a single sex school would have a negative experience so apologies if I implied that.

I think (again this is just my own view! ), popular, confident alpha male and female types - rugged sporty boys and fashionable "attractive" girls - will tend to flourish socially in both single sex and mixed schools. Also those children who mix with similar aged members of the opposite sex outside of their same sex school will be fine.

Its the less confident/popular children who don't have the opportunity to mix outside of school who I think may get on less well in a single sex school. Aggressive macho male behaviour and female "b1tchiness" tend to be more extreme in same sex environments (in my admittedly limited experience).

[Proud_Dad]

In fact when I was 13 I don't think I really knew what I was in the mood for doing other than possibly 'snogging' - some of these young beauties seem to be offering a repertoire which requires me (and I am no wide-eyed innocent myself) to resort to the Urban Dictionary. And then wish I hadn't.

Yikes! Not the Urban Dictionary Amber! Had you not been warned?!

I always thought of myself as quite a broad minded chap until I innocently ventured onto that site to look up the meaning of a seemingly innocuous phrase I overheard a couple of teens sniggering over. Needless to say I felt the need to scrub my brain with bleach after reading the definition!

[kenyancowgirl]

Try having a rugged sporty boy who displays asd behaviours...socially finds it very difficult with boys and girls but would have hated to be in a mixed school. It's surely horses for courses? As for why there are less and less state single sex schools? Nothing more sinister than simple economics, I would hazard...

[Amber]

Try having a rugged sporty boy who displays asd behaviours...socially finds it very difficult with boys and girls but would have hated to be in a mixed school. It's surely horses for courses?

Well yes, but (genuine question) what happens to such rugged sporty boys with ASD behaviours in the (majority of) other countries which don't offer single gender schooling? My Dutch and Scandinavian friends think we are very odd indeed still to have any such schools at all. I am not aware of a massive problem with ASD boys in these countries, but I could be wrong.

As for why there are less and less state single sex schools? Nothing more sinister than simple economics, I would hazard...

I am not so sure. There is no consistent pedagogical research which suggests that single sex schools are a good idea so I don't understand why anyone without a religious agenda would propose starting one, nor argue vehemently for any which were under threat to stay open. I may be wrong but don't think economic imperatives would have much to do with it - separating by sex already feels a bit Victorian to me - maybe we will just grow out of it.

[doodles]

I really don't see a problem with single sex education if it's a choice that you make for your child and it is the "best fit" for them. I would hate for us " grow out of them" and see choice reduced even further.

[kenyancowgirl]

ASD is not, I don't think, a massive problem to any country, in that numbers are small (although diagnosis are increasing gradually). It is however problematic for families who have to deal with it day in day out. My point was that having a rugged sporty type does not automatically mean they are brilliant socially - and, when they are not, it can almost always be worse - they "stand out" for NOT being socially confident around the girlie groupies, for example.

For us, being in a boys school has made our son more confident "at school", with his peers, without the complication or shyness that being around girls entails, on a daily basis. And, because of that, he has been able to deal with girls on his own terms and, therefore, gain confidence and appropriateness there (although we are still miles away from your atypical stereotype of macho rugged sporty type!) It worked for us - we had a choice and we made that choice, based on his needs. If he had been brought up in a Scandinavian country, where that choice did not exist, he would have had to go co-ed...I suspect, however, that not having the choice, means that our Scandinavian friends are even more geared up to deal with co-ed type issues that occur, ASD or not!

With more and more co-ed state schools - I absolutely take your point that it would be hard to argue to open new ones - but I do think there is an element of economies of scale - it is one reason lots of schools that are single sex, change to become co-ed in the 6th Form - it opens out the school to more candidates, cheaply, as it pretty much costs the same to run an A level for 8 pupils as it does 20, (only taking one classroom/teacher etc). It is certainly one of the "arguments" our school used quite openly as to why they were taking girls in the 6th form (the other being bridging the gap between single gender school and co-ed Uni/work)

[um]

I went to a girls' school for most of my education but am not a shrinking violet! That might have more to do with my grandmother, who was a staunch feminist and campaigner for women's rights. She did once go into the school to ask why on earth I was doing cookery lessons as I would have no need to cook (unfortunately she was incorrect on that one ).

However I agree that there are still deep questions to be aired about confidence in girls generally, and I am afraid to say that in my experience we still have a long way to go to raise this.
When I work with girls and boys - it is usually - almost without exception - the boys who want to read/come to the front/feel confident about what they have to say.
And the girls (who have just as super a contribution to make!) sadly have to be prompted to speak up much more.
If anything, a girls' school may help girls come out of this shell and become more self assured and confident as they grow.

[Guest55]

When I work with girls and boys - it is usually - almost without exception - the boys who want to read/come to the front/feel confident about what they have to say.
And the girls (who have just as super a contribution to make!) sadly have to be prompted to speak up much more.
If anything, a girls' school may help girls come out of this shell and become more self assured and confident as they grow.

That's a generalisation too, um and doesn't agree with my experiences as a pupil, teacher and parent.

We all base our opinions on our own experiences - good and bad - so we are never going to reach a consensus!

[um]

Not a generalisation - an observation borne from genuine experience!
I do work hard to ensure that girls feel confident and know they also have something special to contribute - but in many cases it does take hard work to ensure that!