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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:33 pm 
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This can be a very emotive issue and I would ask that this is discussed sensitively without racial overtones bearing in my mind we live in a multicultural country as one of the main arguments for leaving is the current levels of unsustainable immigration.I have always been a europhile but I am likely to be voting to leave like most members of my extended family.It feels like we are being bounced and scared into voting to remain.The governments leaflet came through the post today and went in the bin without being read.I have real security concerns and don't feel membership of the EU has been beneficial to small and medium sized UK businesses and companies.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:00 am 
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We are keen on birds, and have a good variety of rather interesting ones in our garden. However, we have noted an unwelcome expansion in collared dove population of late. These are silly birds in my view who go round making stupid 'coo coo cuck' noises, falling off telegraph poles and pooing on my washing.

DH tells me that most of them are coming from Eastern Europe, and personally I think something should be done. There are clearly not enough border controls in place and I have never seen one doing a day's honest work. In fact some of their behaviour on my lawn is positively shocking and I have to tell my children to look away.

I haven't read the propaganda from the Government, but I fear it may not address this important issue.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:02 am 
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I am having a bit of a struggle with this one; on balance I think it is better to remain in the EU rather than out of it. A huge number of jobs would be lost were we to leave, and in addition I believe that workers' rights would be affected as there would be less recourse to the European courts of justice. Legally I believe that by being part of a wider framework, there are strong and robust legal safeguards in place which is good for the country and good for people.

I have been listening to a lot of LBC phone ins in recent weeks and small business owners have been calling in with their views; it seems as if there is a bit of a hung jury - many say they are better off in, others want out.

Regarding immigration: Britain is not part of the Schengen agreement, but of course there are other agreements in place which have facilitated easy ingress. It's a tricky area for me; I do agree that immigration needs to be better controlled, but I also think that there are other elements which people forget, like the fact that about 3 million people left the UK last year to live overseas (I heard that on the BBC just recently), or the reason there is so little housing available in London is because there are so many landlords keeping properties vacant. People blame 'the immigrants' whereas actually I think the people really damaging the economy are the tax dodgers (folk like Philip Green) and the overseas property owners who just mass-purchase property and watch it appreciate in value, with no intention of letting people live there. It's not the immigrants who are pushing prices up, it's the tax evaders and the rich landlords. Anyway, perhaps that's a leftie rant for another day.......

Regarding your security concerns Quasimodo: I hear you, but acts of terrorism are far more likely to be committed by so called 'home grown' radicalised youth, in my view. Being an island we are a lot safer from border infiltration than, say , France or other European countries. It's not the borders we should be worried about, it's the rhetoric and the radicalisation - and that has nothing to do with borders. Border control cannot stop ideologies. If we are worried about Da'esh we need to look to the existing communities and subject their academies and autonomous faith schools to intense, invasive scrutiny. IMO.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:15 am
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Amber wrote:
We are keen on birds, and have a good variety of rather interesting ones in our garden. However, we have noted an unwelcome expansion in collared dove population of late. These are silly birds in my view who go round making stupid 'coo coo cuck' noises, falling off telegraph poles and pooing on my washing.

DH tells me that most of them are coming from Eastern Europe, and personally I think something should be done. There are clearly not enough border controls in place and I have never seen one doing a day's honest work. In fact some of their behaviour on my lawn is positively shocking and I have to tell my children to look away.

I haven't read the propaganda from the Government, but I fear it may not address this important issue.

Now that's funny. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:09 am 
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Made me smile too.
I really struggle to know the ins & outs of this and want to take some time to look at the facts rather than propaganda (is that possible?). However if I was voting selfishly I would have to vote to stay in. My particular bit of my particular industry would more or less vanish if we left.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:54 am 
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Posts: 1656
I'm voting to stay in. I think that all citizens of the world should have freedom of movement and be allowed to work where they can. You may think it's radical, but borders are artificial things.
In my opinion, most migrants are brave people who have been forced to leave their home for whatever reason. It's not easy not fitting in and making a new life. Moreover, migrants choose a place where they can prosper. If there is no work or opportunities people just don't go there. Think about the amount of British people living in Spain. They go there to retire and need the Spanish services. What would happen to all those elderly people? Would we force them to return? My own in-laws chose to retire and live in a European country where they had a bigger house and their money went further. They used the medical services, etc. Many of their friends did the same.
We have other friends who have immigrated to other European countries as their areas of research were not as advanced in the UK.

So, there is migration both ways.

What I think should be reciprocal is the benefits system. People should be welcome to work if they find work here, but not take money from the state if they haven't worked here first. After all, British nationals would not be paid any benefits in some European countries if they hadn't worked there first.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:59 am 
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scary mum wrote:
I really struggle to know the ins & outs of this and want to take some time to look at the facts rather than propaganda (is that possible?).
I have to say that the decision of the Government to send us all a little propaganda sheet in favour of staying in has made me more likely to vote to leave just on principle. And indeed the thought of doing anything David Cameron wants me to do is horribly difficult. I was told recently that the only logical position for anyone left wing is to vote to stay in. I have been pondering that one.

Whoever coined the term Brexit wants shooting. That hardly elevates the level of public debate, which couldn't get much lower, does it? What is the opposite? Brinnit? You gotta be brinnit to winnit. (I'm copyrighting that as of today)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:08 am 
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Brinnit, innit? :D


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:19 am 
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Brinnit.

I've pondered this and listened to the campaigners for both sides- decided now. As a scientist and DH involved at policy level, even Scotland leaving was going to cause problems with funding. Brexit? No way- madness!

If 16s could vote in this as in Scotland, they would be mainly for innit apparently. I think they should have a say, it will affect them a lot.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Amber, you may not want to do anything David Cameron suggests, but are you more inclined to do Boris Johnson's bidding? Devil and the Deep Blue Sea. :wink:


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