Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union ?

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JamesDean
Posts: 1537
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by JamesDean »

Jiffreturns wrote:Amber, you may not want to do anything David Cameron suggests, but are you more inclined to do Boris Johnson's bidding?
.... or Michael Gove's! <shudder> :shock:

JD
SunlampVexesEel
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:31 pm

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by SunlampVexesEel »

I will be voting to leave the European Union.

IMHO Migration should be controlled and a points based system employed such that those with skills in demand will continue to be allowed to enter the UK.

Without migration controls the long term future of health provision, education and pensions is dead in the water; the numbers just don't add up with the current scheme.

As far as law making is concerned I am less fervent as I believe there have been some good EU laws but even in that case being out of the EU is better as we can choose to adopt legislation where appropriate but not be forced into it where it is badly founded.

In practical terms I think it will be a difficult two years of negotiation unless there is a purge of the conservative leadership, even if we vote to leave there is wiggle room for the politicians to enter agreements that dilute our independence.

That's my personal view, I accept that roughly 50% of the UK population disagree with me. :D

Regards
SVE
Animis opibusque parati
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by Amber »

SunlampVexesEel wrote:a purge of the conservative leadership
Now you're talking...where do I tick for that one?
mike1880
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by mike1880 »

We can be getting on with that while we're waiting for the referendum in June.

I'm not an admirer of the EU and would dearly like to vote to leave, but I'm also deeply unhappy about the idea of giving our "leaders" carte blanche on employment protection and human rights.

Given the choice of voting for Cameron/Osborne or Gove/Farrage the best answer appears to be to emigrate...
salsa
Posts: 2686
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:59 am

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by salsa »

mike1880 wrote:We can be getting on with that while we're waiting for the referendum in June.

I'm not an admirer of the EU and would dearly like to vote to leave, but I'm also deeply unhappy about the idea of giving our "leaders" carte blanche on employment protection and human rights.

Given the choice of voting for Cameron/Osborne or Gove/Farrage the best answer appears to be to emigrate...
Quick! Before they send you back to Britain if we leave the EU!
Please remember that many European professionals come to work, pay taxes and later on leave not staying around for when they are elderly and depend so much on NHS services. If all those workers go, our own unqualified and unemployed population will not suddenly become skilled to the required level.

Moreover, I agree that I wouldn't trust the government on employment law.
SunlampVexesEel
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:31 pm

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by SunlampVexesEel »

mike1880 wrote:but I'm also deeply unhappy about the idea of giving our "leaders" carte blanche on employment protection and human rights.
If you are young (maybe not necessarily that young!) and not highly skilled then you are quite likely to be subject to a Zero hours contract.
IMHO Zero hours contracts are hugely socially damaging, but the EU are not helping with rights for 'irregular workers', it's a UK issue and will need to be addressed in the UK.

Of course having excess supply in the labour market only strengthens the power of the employers at the cost of the employed. Only voting to leave the EU can help with that.

I'm starting to sound like a socialist, that's never happened before... I better stop!

Regards
SVE
Animis opibusque parati
SunlampVexesEel
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:31 pm

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by SunlampVexesEel »

salsa wrote:If all those workers go
They will not go. Why would they go? Skilled workers could be retained under a points system, offered citizenship if deemed fit.

The UK will continue to attract the best talent if only for one reason.... it's predominately English speaking (very useful for international interactions) and it's a nice place to live!

I've worked in a number of places around the world under various visa arrangements, If you've got the skills you are fine.

I really don't know where some of this pro-EU Project Fear stuff comes from.

Regards
SVE
Animis opibusque parati
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by Guest55 »

In my opinion, both sides are spending far too much time scaremongering rather than stating the facts FOR their 'side'.

It would be great to see some positives put forward for each point of view ...
salsa
Posts: 2686
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:59 am

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by salsa »

SunlampVexesEel wrote:
salsa wrote:If all those workers go
They will not go. Why would they go? Skilled workers could be retained under a points system, offered citizenship if deemed fit.

The UK will continue to attract the best talent if only for one reason.... it's predominately English speaking (very useful for international interactions) and it's a nice place to live!

I've worked in a number of places around the world under various visa arrangements, If you've got the skills you are fine.

I really don't know where some of this pro-EU Project Fear stuff comes from.

Regards
SVE
If you have worked abroad you may have experienced the palaver that an employer has to go through to hire someone. It takes time and it's a lot of paper work. In many cases the employer or institution would be forced to hire someone less qualified to avoid the paperwork and the time waiting for the papers to come through. One thing is retaining those already here, but what about those coming? It's much easier to come and look for a job than applying remotely. Moreover, it's not only skilled workers we employ. What about all the cleaners and carers doing jobs locals do not want to do?
Furthermore, after a while in Britain you may not feel welcome and decide to go. I believe this has happened with a lot of Polish people.

Let's not forget the millions of British people who have left for Europe. Wouldn't you want to have the option of warmer climates? I know I do.
Last edited by salsa on Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Should Britain vote to remain or exit the European Union

Post by mystery »

Stay. For many reasons and amongst these:

A good proportion of migrants to this country are fairly recent from EU countries that joined the EU over the last decade or two. It seems the data shows that on average they have more children than people who have been resident in this country for donkey's years. That's a good thing as countries with one child per family have huge financial problems as the population ages and there is only one worker supporting two elderly people.

If we leave there'll be fewer European migrants here - they'll go elsewhere where its easier. In general, they're a plus for our economy in many ways .... and our national diet. :wink:

I like the general principles EU member states have to sign up to.

Maybe the institution needs reforming from the inside rather than one wealthy member - us - just giving up and leaving.
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